And dont forget this the less fuel you use the less you must tank and this will in the end bring the prices down ..also dont drive round with a full tank in the town If you dont drive far then you dont need a full tank 20 ltrs will do 50 ltrs weigh 50 kilogramms so you can reduce the weight of the car by 30 kilogramms and save fuel doing it Stu This post has been edited by martin245: 29 Jun 2008, 13:15

Yes, it is hard for me to get used to my new car, especialy about CLUTCH. It is significaly higher adjusted, than it was in my old Y(T)ugo45. Maby I'll visit service center to complain about/adjust it.

Also, my town is counting about 250k people, not so big, but traffic routes are terrible cause bigger part of town was madeout withot planinig. So many little streets...boulevars croosing in very center of town....and iff you want to go from one point of town to another, you must pass throught center....

Best Regards,
Peja

>> hard for me to get used to my new car, especialy about CLUTCH

same with all LOGANs, not adjustable much. i have the same problem switching
cars, from other company or rental cars, and it takes a while to get used to it.
but one does, and after a while, it will feel normal.

the LOGAN is not the only new car that has the clutch reacting so far out.

greetings - heinz -

Peja, as Heinz pointed out, it is still to early to judge anything about the car, especially even before you are finished with the running-in. And now is a good time to give your Logan a stretch, take it (or let it take you ) to a longer trip, go to a vacation, or if you can't afford a full vacation, take it to a series of shorter trips outside a town, there are a lot of interested places around within a half day's reach (Djavolja Varos, lake Zavoj for instance, and so on...). This will benefit your Logan a lot during run-in! After that, everything will settle, including consumption, clutch, etc. As I already said in some of my posts from my own experience, you can not expect to see your car's full potential before 3000, even maybe 5000 km's!

As for this topic, just came back from a vacation to Greece yesterday, and here is an update. On the greek highways, with a loaded car (4 persons and nearly full trunk), "real" 120 km/h (by the GPS device, I got one before the trip, not by Logan's speedometer) I was averaging 7.4 l/100km. On the motorways in Serbia with speeds around "real" 90 km/h (Logan's speedo equivalent of nearly 100 km/h), the consumption drops quickly to 6.8 l/100km.

Heinz, clutch pedal "bite" height can be adjusted in a wide range, I personally got behind a wheel of one (owned by the Dacia dealership) which had a clutch adjusted to bite just millimeters above the floor (!!!!!) But, do I need to say how unpleasant it was to drive with such low clutch?!?

I also think that it's better to adapt yourself (and you will), then to tangle with the clutch adjustments. Right now it is where it is supposed to be, at the factory default!

This post has been edited by g100sic: 11 Jul 2008, 09:57

have to report this, because it sounds quite unbelievable, even to me: LOGAN
LIM 1.4MPI, intentionally measured drive over 1200km+ km in the balkans, fast
good roads but no highway exc 250km, plenty of mountains, no real city driving
but in and out 5x large cities, speeds betw 70-100, highway 115, two persons,
some luggage, lights always on, but no A/C. incl 8 border stations.

end of trip, board computer shows consumption of 5.4 L/100km.

re-measured at the very same gasstation it started out at: 5.55 L/100km.

average speed on B/C 68km/h.

if i wouldnt have seen it with my own very eyes, i woul NOT believe it.

greetings - heinz -

PS: car has 68.000 km on the clock, last full service at 59.000, only thing really
changed, out of the routine, then were spark plugs.

PPS: cant get it into my mind: using the last drop, this would mean 1.170 km with
a full full tank.

PPPS: THIS IS NOT A DIESEL

This post has been edited by heinz57g: 27 Jul 2008, 13:37

That is what I was getting on My Bavaria trip (No Autobahn) and I had a 6,2 av
and I was going up some BIG hills and had myself and wife and mother so it was fully loaded
Stu

This post has been edited by martin245: 27 Jul 2008, 16:30

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stu, 6.2 is not 5.4, at that level i think eveyy 1/10 is difficult to achieve. and this was very mountainous trip too.

the mother-in-law part weights more heavy on your mind ...

greetings - heinz -

Like I said 6 ,2 is very good and impressed me I myself weigh 115 kg and I wont let you know the rest I drove one rout to Bolsterlang 1500mtrs to Grasgehren and it pulled like a Donkey up that pass
and I do not drive as to save fuel .I just drive safely and take my time
you have too here in Germany as you well know treat all other drivers like they are idiots and you will reach your destination
STu

>> I myself weigh 115 kg and I wont let you know the rest

i wouldnt tell, anyhow. just look at me.

>> I drove one rout to Bolsterlang 1500mtrs

wow, you drove all of 1.5 kms? how long did it take you, a full day?

no, seriously now, 6.2 is very good for that car, and actually what i had
considered the lowest limit for sensible driving, not being a hinderance.

thats why i initially could not believe the 5.4 anyhow, and still have a hard
time doing so. i will redo that run once more in september, then see.
mountains there are enough, 8 passes of 1200+m height, then down to
160m in between. advantage is low traffic, sometimes none, so on the hills
down, you can just let it run. just dont tell anybody.

greetings - heinz

Hi friends. I've just returned from vacation, traveled from Nis to Zlatibor and return, and had few trips on Zlatibor ( Zlatibor-Mokra Gora-Tara-Zlatibor, and Zlatibor-Sirogojno-Vodice-Tornik-Zlatibor). People who were on Zlatibor well know this roads (hils).

These are first 1500km in life of my Logan 1.4MPI, so I kept it under 3000rpm.

AC was ON all the time, two passengers (aprox. 150kg), with lots of bagage.

When I've came back, I made calculation of average fuel consuption: 784km with aprox 50L BMB95.

IT IS SLIHGTLY UNDER 6.4!!!!! I couldn't beleive my eyes!

WELL DONE DACIA!

And also a well done to YOU because the main factor in fuel saving is the DRIVER

Stu

peja, well done. and it will even get better once you reach 20-30th km.

greetings - heinz -

Great site to track mileage of your car and compare with similar cars : http://www.spritmonitor.de/
It is english and in deutch.

P.S. You can keep track of fuel costs, service costs, insurance costs, pretty much everything.

Went this sunday to Devil's town (Djavolja Varos), an unique natural phenomenon site, 218 km total, of which some 10% of the road is in very bad condition (gravel), with 14 l of fuel, so that makes 6.4 l/100km!

Site in serbian: Djavolja Varos
and in english: Devil's town
In competition for the 7 Natural Wonders of the World, vote for it !!!

... and as of now, it runs on Devil's Water ?

greetings - heinz -

No, Logan still runs on petrol, unleaded 95, though it might enjoy 98 more...
I run on Devil's Water, or have run, for it must have leaked out by now...

And what about average LPG consumption? Any expirience? I'm still new in this area, now using second LPG tank

keka, about 1.8-2.4 L more than the gasoline version. which, unfortunately,
is more than most people want to (be made) believe.

greetings - heinz -

This post has been edited by heinz57g: 20 Aug 2008, 23:38

I don't want to start the war now, but the most influencing factor to LPG consumption is one's driving style. The differences are big and can not be just put to 1.8-to-2.4l-more-than-gasoline statement, especially urban driving, where "heavy foot" driving style can almost double your "be gentle with the pedal" fuel (any fuel) consumption. And with sequential LPG systems in our engines, the only reason for consuming more LPG than gasoline is it's lower energy potential per liter and this causes 10-15% increase (depending on the propan/butan mixture). Period. If more than that, have it checked (leakage) and adjusted properly (mixture). And if it is 2.4l more, this means that your gasoline consumption would be at least 16l/100km!
Greetings.

This post has been edited by Loganovac: 24 Aug 2008, 11:23

well, these were values from actual cars driven in the very same circumstances,
at times even by the same drivers, and over quite a distance. remember, we are
NOT talking about driving styles or heavy feet, here.

so before we get into theories, why not try it? talk for example to the taxi drivers
that in most cities have 70% LPG.

or take the two cars i have standing out in our yard here: together 64000km on
gasoline (6.8 avrg), and 56000km on LPG (8.9 avrg), same roads and cities all
the time, same drivers. very little heavy city traffic. fairly simple but solid east
european installation (italian/polish/bulgarian) costing under 1000 EUR.

or even simpler, and more neutral: check the averages on www.spritmonitor.de ,
and be aware, that 90% of the cars there have very eleborate LPG setups,
costing some 2.000-3.500 EUR each, and running considerably more efficient
(! really !) than the balkan versions of 500-1000 EUR. which possibly is more along
the line that most of us here, incl keka, will use.

there you can compare 31 gasoline DACIAs driven over 10.000km ea and summing
up at over 600.000km, averaging 7.55L/100km. and some 12 LPG versions, totalling
some 300.000km, averaging 9.23L/100km.

the official figure, by the way, given by DACIA ROMANIA which sells their own LPG
version (limited export though) is also some 2 L above the gasoline model.

but you are right, who wants to start a war. let keka report back to us after he has
done some 10000km++, and then we will see.

but others who actually drive a LPG version are happily invited too.

greetings - heinz -

PS: hey, want to go really cheap? not untill very long ago, i had a kitchen gas bottle
held in the boot, with a frame cut from an old tyre in my LADA 1500. the bottle incl
the pipes and the refitted carburator did cost 130 EUR, total. it ran for 30.000km+,
and as far as i know, still does.

This post has been edited by heinz57g: 24 Aug 2008, 17:10

I can not believe that Heinz himself, not so long ago, was one of the kamikazas driving around sitting on a bomb.
BTW, I followed the link www.spritmonitor.de, and was not able to find any comparison between LPG and gasoline consumption by the same car, same driver. You can easy make an averages, and the results are as stated, but the "heavy foot" phenomenon takes place there, because when you switch from 1.4 EUR/l to 0.7 EUR/l fuel, you don't care so much about consumption, you relax your mind and your foot too.
And one more thing, I would be grateful if anybody provide a link to one of those "very eleborate LPG setups, costing some 2.000-3.500 EUR each", because I have never heard of such a thing. And, please, don't try to impute any CNG setups. Thank you in advance and greetings to all.

25 Aug 2008, 06:48:
... furthermore, analyzing the data on the same site (www.spritmonitor.de) you can easily find the FACT that Logan MCV gasoline driven consumes half a liter less fuel than the sedan (6.97l/100km, 7 vehicles, 74000km vs. 7.46l/100km, 13 vehicles, 371000km), which is nonsense. But comparing the relation between sedan's LPG/gas consumption you get 1.12l LPG more, and for the MCV the numbers are +1.46l, so not even near the stated 1.8 to 2.4l more.java script:add_smilie(":naughty:","smid_90")
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This post has been edited by Loganovac: 25 Aug 2008, 07:48

>> can not believe that Heinz himself, not so long ago, was one of the kamikazas driving around sitting on a bomb

oh, yes, very much so. and plenty of other experiments, too.

>> www.spritmonitor.de, and was not able to find any comparison ... same driver

naturally not, why should you. if you compare the 31 gas with the 12 LPG, they would be all different drivers.

and your theory about all LPG drivers driving with a 'heavy foot' is great - with that you could really start a war in
an LPG forum.

you seem to love theory, loganovac, do you? why not rather talk about things you know, and talk to people who have
experienced it first-hand, on their own?

remember, we are talking pure technical facts here. not religion, not politics.

>> "very eleborate LPG setups, costing some 2.000-3.500 EUR each", because I have never heard of such a thing

you live in a dream world, my dear (but so do i, at times). that is pretty much the standard price of a conversion,
anywhere in w-europe, incl the absolutely necessary technical inspection and the entry in the car documents. why
not check advertisements about this, or the many german/dutch/french DACIA
forums?

** ... macht alles zusammen 2483,99 €
** ... eine KME Anlage geholt.... mit zusätzlicher Motorgarantie für 2400 Euro
** ... 2850 Euro für ne neue PRINS VSI

this just on the quick, and people who got discounted setups after asking around. and all plus 200-450 for the
documentation/registration/legalisation.

>> (www.spritmonitor.de) ... ... .... wich is nonsense

well, that again is your personal opinion and theory against 146 thousand drivers, none of which know each other,
and their 1.375 millions of km driven.

when you do check there, by the way, set it for cars driven 5000 or 10000km at least, otherwise you get
unbalanced figures.

but as i said, we just wait for keka to finish his first 10000km, and then we talk again. actual facts, not theory.

greetings - heinz -

This post has been edited by heinz57g: 25 Aug 2008, 10:16

Dear Heinz,

you probably forgot that I also have an experience with an LPG driving on my own: 200.000km driving with an old (carburetor type) LPG conversion system and 15.000km with the new, very elaborate, sequential system on Logan, so we don't have to wait for Keka to finish his first 10.000km. I am also one of the "first-hand"s.
Then, I am not talking about the price of the conversion and technical inspection in W.Europe, but the above mentioned level of sophistication in LPG conversion systems outside Balkan vs. at Balkan.
And yes, I like the theory, because knowing it can help in setting our goals and expectations, and the people who designed our vehicles also like it.

25 Aug 2008, 09:15:
But why not theory, what is wrong with knowing what's going on inside?

This post has been edited by Loganovac: 25 Aug 2008, 10:15

>> But why not theory, what is wrong with knowing what's going on inside?

good point, and correct: we should talk theory too. but is such theory gets overruled by technical facts, and thousands of them,
then theory has to stay back.

>> 200.000km driving with an old (carburetor type) LPG conversion system

then you DO know! how much more did you use compared to the same car and driving style of someone else?

>> and 15.000km with the new, very elaborate, sequential system on Logan

perfect, my friend. and you also consider yourself a careful and not foot-heavy driver, right? so how much LPG have
you used on these 15000km?

>> level of sophistication in LPG conversion systems outside Balkan vs. at Balkan

lets not get into thet VS thing. it is also, and thats to our benefit, that people in w-europe very often get talked
(call it: cheated) into something high priced. so who now has the advantage? but is slowly starting here too, look at oil
prices or tyres.

greetings - heinz

This post has been edited by heinz57g: 25 Aug 2008, 11:23

Just one "corner view": is it possible that we have nothing else to do at Monday 10 a.m. but talking she.t?
I quit.

well, keka (and many others) asks a reasonable question, and we answer and discuss it. thats what is expected and
appreciated here. and that included you, and none of what you said i would consider '' ... talking she.t ... ''. i am doing
accounting at the moment on the computer, so the forum running in a small window on the side does not really take
away my attention to much. even on a monday morning ...

but feel free to answer or not answer the main, but fairly simple question (( ... you also consider yourself a careful
and not foot-heavy driver, right? so how much LPG have you used on these 15000km? )).

greetings - heinz

This post has been edited by heinz57g: 25 Aug 2008, 11:26

You were given a perfect answer from Heinz and i think that your remark was uncalled for
Stu

25 Aug 2008, 18:13:
@Heinz
Hey i filled up by accident on Sat with Super plus .I must say the car is a lot more responsive in the lower revs .I think I will try a tankfull out on the 28th when I drive to the UK .because with my reckoning. it will be better going uphill and i will maybe get that little more out of my tank (Lets see )
Stu

This post has been edited by martin245: 25 Aug 2008, 19:13

Here are some news.......I haven't done 10.000+ km, but 500 and average LPG consumption is 8.0 l

In same conditions average gasoline sonsumption was 6.5-7.0 l

I'm cool with this consumption. Suppose it could be even less, because now i have heavy foot due to cheap fuel on highways I used to drive 90-100 km/h, and now I drive 110-120 km/h, and in urban cycle I drive with sharper acceleration then before.

keka, looks good so far, but 500km cannot yet clearly tell
consumption, so give it some time ... if you missed only half
a liter on refilling, or the temp was different, or or or, thats
already 12% diff.

greetings - heinz -

Heinz, you missed the comment about heavy foot or what? I am expecting a "perfect answer", as always. But don't worry, whatever you say will be perfect for Stu.
Greetings to all.
Loganovac, 130 pounds per foot.

PLEASE DO NOT POST OFFTOPIC MESSAGESS!!!