Kanewai 2015: Team Caesar
Printed From: How-to-learn-any-language.com
Forum Name: Language Learning Log
Forum Discription: Your personal language learning logbook: milestones, successes, brick walls & goals great and small. Document your progress and get support, tips and encouragement from other forum members.
URL: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30438
Printed Date: 05 May 2024 at 12:08am
Posted By: kanewai
Subject: Kanewai 2015: Team Caesar
Date Posted: 19 December 2011 at 10:15pm
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2015 Team Caesar
French, Italian, Spanish (starts on p. 39) Serpent: Portuguese, Italian, Spanish, Romanian, Catalan YnEoS: French, Romanian, strong interest in other Romance languages liammcg: Italian, French TimmyTurner93: Portuguese garyb: French, Italian sillygoose1: Italian, Portuguese Sooniye: Spanish, dabbling in French and Italian tristano: French, Spanish Kerrie: Spanish, Portuguese, maybe French and Italian Anya: French, Portuguese, Italian, strong interest in other Romance languages Ccaesar: Italian suzukaze: Spanish, French, strong interest in Portuguese jesm86: Portuguese ____________________________________________________________ ___ 2014 DeuxiĂšme YĂŒrĂŒkĂŒler Forza Multi TAC: Turkish, Italian, French (p. 26) Past TAC Teams: 2012 Romantics: French, Spanish, Italian, Catalan. Side trips into Derja. 2013 PAX: Spanish, French (p. 13) Side trips to Ancient Greece and Tokyo [2012] This will be my first TAC, and I'm looking forward to working with you all this coming year! My long-term goal is to become proficient in 7 languages before I turn 50. Although this is becoming a ""short-term goal with each passing year. For 2012, I want to bump up my French and Spanish from an intermediate level to a solid B-1 or B-2. I want to reach a level where I can read novels comfortably, understand movies, and maintain the languages without strain. I'm also planning some detours into Italian and maybe Catalan along the way. Here's my rough plan: First Quarter Emphasis on French. I took two years of French in college, but didn't maintain it. In 2011 I finished Pimsleur 1 and 2, FSI Volume 1, and the passive wave of Assimil French with Ease. For this quarter I want to finish the Active wave of French with Ease, get as far as I can with Assimil Using French, and perhaps keep up with FSI Volume 2. I've also been slowly working through Assimil L'arabe Sans Peine, and will start on Arabe tunisien de poche. I don't want to TAC with Arabic, but it helps that my texts are French-based. I will take two breaks from French to flirt with Catalan and Italian, each for a couple weeks. It's totally foolish and my brain will probably explode. I'm gonna do it anyway. Semester Exams I hit the road in April for a 30-day wander through Barcelona, Rome, Tunisia, and Paris. I will be putting what I learned to the test. Second Quarter Nice and easy: I want to reinforce my French. There are too many times where I've reached a good level in a language while traveling, and then let it all fade when I return home. And it fades fast! I'll focus on reading, starting with parallel texts and graphic novels, and hopefully moving on to some solid literature. Madame Bovary, the works of Antoine de Saint-ExupĂ©ry, and The Elegance of the Hedgehog (L'Ă©lĂ©gance du hĂ©risson) are all on my bucket-list. Third and Fourth Quarters All Spanish, all the time. In 2011 I finished Pimsleur 1 and 2, and half of Assimil Spanish with Ease. In 2012 I'll finish Spanish with Ease, and if I'm feeling confident I'll try the French-based Perfectionnement Espagnol. Final Exams Three weeks in MĂ©xico: Guanajuato, Oaxaca, and Chiapas. Recovery It would be beyond fantastic if I were able to read modern Spanish literature at the end of the year. |
Replies:
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http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30353&PN=1 -
TAC 2012 - The Romantics The Team http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=28146&PN=1&TPN=1 - TACâ12 ÉŹ and The Romantics - Mani in Lux. Mani, Luxembourg: French, Luxembourgish, Kurdish; probably Russian, Portuguese http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30376&PN=1 - Garyâs TAC 2012 - The Romantics Garyb, Scotland: French, Italian and perhaps Spanish http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30429&PN=1&TPN=1 - Michelleâs TAC 2012 Log - The Romantics Mcsice, United States: Spanish and perhaps French or Italian http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30287&PN=2 - Anamsc TAC 2012-catalĂ , français, español Anamsc, Andorra http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30391&PN=1&TPN=1 - Lianneâs TAC 2012 - The Romantics Lianne, Canada: French, Esperanto and maybe Toki Pona {review) http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30425&PN=1&TPN=1 - TACâ12-Pacoâs Español Log-The Romantics PacoBell, United States http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30390&PN=1 - Pesahsonâs TAC 2012 - French Pesahson, Poland http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30393&PN=1 - Hendrekâs Italian TAC - The Romantics Hendrek, United States: Italian, Persian http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=24268&PN=1 - Songlinesâ TAC: French and...? Songlines, Canada: French, Mandarin and perhaps Italian http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=19226&PN=1&TPN=4 - TAC 2012 - Jâaimerais ĂȘtre bilingue Microsnout, Canada: French (QuĂ©bĂ©coise) http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=29640 - Moving to France PinkCordelia, France: French, Italian http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30481 - TAC 2012 Español + Deutsch (team ĆœĂĄ) Kyknos, Czech Republic http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30294&PN=1 - Kerrieâs TAC â12 Team ĆœĂĄ / Romantics Log Kerrie, US: French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Croatian/Bosnian http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=29219 - Hasta La Fluidez, Siempre! Ligador: Spanish and German http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30564 - BlackDahliaâs TAC 2012 Romantics Log BlackDahlia, US: French http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30649&PN=1 - Tw561âs TAC / The Romantics Tw561, US: Italian, Spanish http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30621 - Mepisevaergâs TAC Log 2012 Mepisevaerg, US: German, Mandarin, Spanish http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30711&PN=1&TPN=1 - Luso's Log Luso, Portugal: Italian, German, Arabic http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30885 - Ar, Fr, MÄori, GĂ idhlig Team ÉŹ & Romantic Quabazaa, New Zealand: Arabic, French, MÄori, GĂ idhlig http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30965 - My Spanish Log TAC 2012 Romantics Dearwanderlust, United States: Spanish updated 24 Jan 12 kanewai on 19 December 2011 |
Yes! That's my strategy for everything! Good luck with all your languages this year! ellasevia on 20 December 2011 |
Hi Kanewai, welcome to the team. :) I love your idea of exams! It's definitely a great motivation. pesahson on 20 December 2011 |
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I like how you added all our countries to the list of team-mates. I hadn't noticed how spread out we are!
Best of luck! Lianne on 20 December 2011 |
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I've been getting my materials ready to kick off the New Year and TAC right! Assimil Using French is in the mail, and I've downloaded (and already started) Volume 2 of FSI French.
I'm still struggling with finding the right Italian materials. A friend loaned me her complete set of Pimsleur Italian - all three volumes. This was a score! Although I'm not sure I have the fortitude to do another full Pimsleur course. I've downloaded FSI Italian FAST, and I think that might be my main focus. I also took a look at "Teach Yourself Catalan" book at the library. It wasn't bad, but it was a bit more linear than I wanted. There was a chapter for pronouns, a chapter for each tense, a chapter for genders, etc. I'm too used to the more holistic approaches of Assimil/FSI/Pimsleur type courses to go back to this. I'll keep poking around. kanewai on 23 December 2011 |
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I picked up Michel Thomas Italian at the library. It's only 2 cd's, so I'm doing this more to see if I want to buy it or not. I want to do an Italian intensive, and I don't think Pimsleur is made for that.
My first impressions are mixed. I like the pacing, and the students aren't as irritating as I thought they would be. I am worried about his accent, though - he has a strong Polish accent in English, and I imagine his Italian would be equally Polacized. Or whatever the Polish equivalent of Anglicized would be. The bigger issue is the, ahem, clarity of the digital recordings. It is very, very clear. I can hear his saliva swishing around. Did they record this from inside his mouth? He reminds me of those older gentlemen you meet who are growing hard of hearing and so stand just a little bit too close when they talk and you're trying to listen to what they're saying but damn they really are standing too close and it is starting to get just a bit uncomfortable. I might go ahead and buy the ten cd set. I would like to know personally how MT compares to Pimsleur, and most people agree that MT is better suited to cramming. I'm also jumping way ahead of myself. I told myself: no Italian until I've finished my French. I just wanted to peak ahead a little bit. I promise I won't do it again ... or at least until TAC 2012 really kicks off ... side note: Whoever stocked our public library should have consulted with HTLAL first. There are shelves full of sub-par programs (Learn French in Ten Days! Making Out in Gaelic! Speak Ancient Greek with the Five Minutes a Day Method! ). And yet they only have the short versions and the introductions for the courses that actually work. kanewai on 24 December 2011 |
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Hello, Kanewai. Welcome to TAC 2012. =)
I'm focusing on French and Italian next year, too (among a few others). Have you looked at the Living Language Ultimate Italian series? They're fairly linear, too, but I like them a lot better than the Teach Yourself series. Plus, if you have a fair amount of French (even passive), you can probably fly through them pretty quickly. Kerrie on 24 December 2011 |
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I'll take a look! Right now I have more Italian material than I can use - I had already
ordered Michel Thomas when a friend sent me here Pimsleur Italian I-III. It makes me want to find more time this year to focus on the Italian. I'm tweaking my goals for 2012. Catalan isn't really realistic at this point - I don't think I can start two Romantic languages from scratch! French / Italian / Spanish is enough of a handful! And since I've been working on Arabic all along, I'll go ahead and log that here too. kanewai on 29 December 2011 |
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2011 Wrap-Up
French Pimsleur I: 4 weeks Pimsleur II: 5 weeks FSI Volume 1: 12 Chapters, 14 weeks total. French in Action: 5 chapters in August. Didn't finish series. Assimil French with Ease: 113 Lessons, 15 weeks. 8 Active and 58 Passive lessons to go. There was a lot of overlap; I would guess I spent 24 weeks with French as my focus between May and December, with a break in the fall, spending between 30" to 90" per day. I liked this order, starting with Pimsleur and then moving to an FSI/Assimil combination. For all that, I still don't think I've made the jump from A1/A2 to B1! I don't think I speak well at all, and want to step back in 2012 and focus on some of the more speaking-oriented programs: Pimsleur III, maybe Michel Thomas Advanced. And I fully intend to finish French with Ease, and to start Using French. Spanish Pimsleur I & II: 10 weeks YucatĂĄn & Chiapas: March. 2 weeks immersion! Assimil Spanish with Ease: 70 lessons out of 109. 9 weeks. FSI Basic: 5 chapters, 3 weeks. Jalisco and Nayarit: November. 10 days. I understand far less Spanish than French, but speak it better. Even the short periods of immersion help immensely. My Spanish in 2011 was focused around two vacations, so I did about ten weeks at the beginning of the year, and then ten weeks in the fall. For the record: people in the YucatĂĄn speak a nice, slow dialect of Spanish; it's wonderful for the beginner! I used similar programs as with French. Pimsleur was almost identical. FSI involved more book drills than the French course, and I lost interest very quickly. Assimil Spanish was more advanced; the dialogues were longer, and new grammar was introduced quickly. I liked it a lot, maybe even more than the French Assimil, but it took much longer to work through. For 2012 I want to jump up to the B-1 level. I have Pimsleur Spanish III lined up, will finish Spanish with Ease, and might try Perfectionnement Espagnol, even though it is French-based. Arabic Pimsleur I (Eastern): 6 weeks. I retained nothing. FSI Written, Volume 1: 10 out of 32 lessons, 6 weeks. I hit a wall and quit. Assimil L'arabe: 28 lessons out of 77. 6 weeks so far. I have started and quit studying Arabic half a dozen times already. There are too many dialects, the courses suck, and my progress is so dang slow. I've spent 18 weeks this year so far, and each lesson is still a struggle. Which isn't to say it's bad - I'm ok with the struggle, and it's a beautiful language. I'm just looking forward to the point where I can just pick up and read a text, rather than have to sound everything out letter by letter and word by word. Of course, working with French texts does slow me down a bit. And looking forward to 2012, all my potential Arabic courses are French-based. I'm getting two for the price of one here. I had made a Google calendar to keep track of what I studied & when; it's really nice to be able to look back at the end of the year and see how it went! kanewai on 29 December 2011 |
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That's a really neat idea, keeping track of what you spent your time on all year! All I have is my log to tell me that. Although, I accomplished so little in 2011 that I'm not sure I'd want to see it all laid out like that. :) May 2012 be a better year!
Lianne on 30 December 2011 |
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Week 1: French Intensive
I took advantage of the holiday weekend to do some intensive studying. For the past five days it's been French whenever and however I can. I made a big jump, but it was exhausting and intense and felt a bit psychotic at times. I don't know how some of you all study four or five hours a day. I lose focus and start to drift off. This was good for a week, and I'll do three more intensives in the coming months (one per holiday weekend), but this coming week I'm moving back to "slow and steady." I've also added a bit of weight from all the sitting around studying, given that I usually study with either a glass of wine, a beer, or a pint of ice cream to feed my brain. Professor Arguelles never mentioned that big hips were one of the prices of polyglottary. French Pimsleur III: Lessons 1-7 Michel Thomas Advanced: 2 cds (out of 4) Assimil: Lessons 105-113. I finally finished the passive wave! and one flic: The String (Le Fil), 2009: Malik is a gay architect who moves from Paris back to Tunis to live with his mom ... and falls hard for Bilal, the gardener. It's a beautiful movie, even with the clichés. It's also a bit steamy, so make sure you're comfortable with that if you rent it. I did a self-evaluation that I saw on Black Dahlia's log, and got a 60% in French, or Beginner level. That's fair, but I had hoped for more! I couldn't do all Assimil, all the time, so I pulled out my Pimsleur tapes and started Part III. And remembered everything that I like and hate about the Pimsleur method. On one hand, you do make progress in each lesson. It's slow, but it is solid forward motion. And even though I knew everything that was covered through FSI and Assimil, I still found it useful, and sometimes tricky, to have to call it up on demand. BUT. Lesson 7 introduced "le livre," "la table," and "les notes." As in: Les notes sont sous le livre. This is supposed to be the advanced course, and it's aggravating that the little new vocabulary they introduce is wasted on words like "les notes." I also tried Michel Pimsleur for the first time, and was pleasantly surprised. I thought I would be irritated by the students - I always was on preview - but now I'm more a believer. There was a moment when I thought: how the heck did Michel Thomas know I didn't pronounce the "d" fully in "prendre?" And then I realized that the male student was making the exact same errors I make. Meanwhile, I finished Assimil's passive wave! I don't think I've finished many text books before. I still have a few weeks left of the active wave. I loved the course, but am glad to be moving on. The last ten dialogues were an extended story about a couple's move to Paris. It was somewhat dull. I'm ready for literature, or better writing, and am hoping that Using French has some of this. If it ever arrives. Arabic Assimil L'arabe: Lessons 29-31 Still keeping to about twenty minutes a day here, doing Arabic on my lunch hour. Slow and steady. I did go ahead and do some un-Assimil-like things such as making verb charts. And I've completely given up on using the recordings, and now treat this as a written course. Looking ahead, the course is starting to enter new territory for me. This week they start to get into the nine forms that are derived from verbs. I think this is where the poetry of the language will really start to come into focus. Sneak Peak: Italian Michel Thomas Foundation Lessons 1-7 I've collected so much Italian material, and have been chomping at the bit to get started! I was going to wait two more weeks, but I decided to ease into it, and get a taste for the language before I make it my main focus. It was a bit more challenging than I thought it would be, and I will definitely need to listen to this a second time before moving on. But here is one difference between MT and Pimsleur already: I hated it when I had to repeat lessons on Pimsleur. I don't think I'll mind it so much with MT. I couldn't pull off three languages at a time back in September. I'm gonna try it again, and but keep each language separate by method, time, and technique. I'm thinking: Lunch: Reading L1 Gym: 30" of cardio with Pimsleur or MT, L2. And I need the cardio, so I will be at the gym a lot. cf. Argulles, hips (above). Home: 30" of L3 with Assimil or FSI This week I'll work on my Arabic reading at lunch, I'll use MT Italian at the gym, and continue with Assimil French in the evening. In a few weeks I'll rotate. This should work, yeah? kanewai on 03 January 2012 |
I don't remember him mentioning beer and ice cream, either! :) Kerrie on 03 January 2012 |
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French - Preview of Using French
(Le Français en pratique, Assimil Advanced Series) Using French finally arrived last night. I won't start it until this weekend, but since reviews were hard to find on it here are some first impressions: - There are 70 lessons, and 4 cds. Using French is smaller than French with Ease, but denser. Both have the same author, Anthony Bulger. It follows the same format of a dialogue with 15-20 lines followed by exercises, with a Revision Lesson every seven chapters. - There is no mention of a passive and active wave. I think that an active wave would be very difficult, as the book contains much more casual and literary speech. - From the intro: Using French is designed for those who have finished French with Ease, or who have a "good intermediate knowledge" of the major tenses (present, future, passé composé, and conditional), a basic grounding in the present subjunctive, a vocabulary of about 500 words, and a grasp of the formation and position of adjectives, adverbs, and pronouns. - The book focuses on idioms and details, "questions of register", and introduces the literary tenses. - I was hoping for more literature this round, but only found an excerpt from Les Misérables and a brief bio of Honoré de Balzac. - The digital labels on the chapters have improved. e.g., rather than importing as 'Lesson 30' and 'Lesson 31,' the chapters import as 'Leçon 30 - Les débuts de la Révolution' and 'Leçon 31: hors de Paris, il n'y a point de salut.' This will make it much easier to find and replay select lessons in the future. Overall, it looks like a high quality follow-up. I'm looking forward to starting it. kanewai on 06 January 2012 |
Interesting you say that, as I found that there was a bit too much literary language (be it actual excerpts from literature or just lessons in a literary style) and not enough everyday conversational language. I suppose they have to try to cater to everyone so they put in a bit of everything, and the reader can then pursue the areas that interest them further. Overall I found it to be a good course, although not quite as useful as With Ease, since With Ease covers so much important everyday stuff (think of the 80-20 principle, the 20% of language that you use 80% of the time) and Using is more specialised, and I my thoughts on the Active wave were the same as yours. I'm currently working through it for a second time, mostly for shadowing practice (some nice fast speech in there!) but also to revise the material I've forgotten since the first time round. Anyway, enjoy! garyb on 06 January 2012 |
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Italian Week One
Michel Thomas, CD 1 (Lessons 1-11) Pimsleur 1-4 http://studystre.am - Studystre.am I am loving Italian. I don't think I've ever enjoyed the beginning stages of language learning as much. Now. This could be an illusion. This is my first new language in over seven years, so there's the excitement of something new. It's my first time with Michel Thomas. It's my third Romance language, so I'm progressing faster than I ever have with any language. Or I could just love Italian. There's some nice synergy with my French, too. For instance, in French I mix up trĂŽp and assez, but it is easy to remember that tropo is too much in Italian. So, now I have trĂŽp down too! I am only easing into the language right now, doing Michel Thomas while at the gym, and will kick it into a higher gear in a few weeks. But I am already fantasizing about trips to Italy each spring to give me motivation to keep studying. I like the MT method for the most part. I like his emphasis on verbs, and language structure, a lot. I like the little hints he gives. And I like that it's a steady but rapid pace, without a lot of vocabulary in the early stages. I am a firm believer in learning structure, then vocabulary. And I like that the lessons are in short chunks of three to seven minutes. I'm not a total convert, though. I have to repeat a lot. I think I spent four hours on the first one-hour cd. I still might need to repeat it again later. I rarely had to repeat a Pimsleur tape - it was usually slow and steady progress. And about a quarter of the time Mr. Thomas trips me up by interrupting a stuttering student with stuttering interjections of his own, and it totally throws me off. I've been doing the occasional Pimsleur, since I do have it. It's not my priority. It does help, although they insist on using uneccessary pronouns (e.g. saying "io voglio" instead of just "voglio." This does not help at all, and I don't know the logic behind it. The Pimsleur Italian also has a ten minute reading section at the end of the lessons, so the oral part in only twenty minutes. I'm not bothering with that now. And I do need to wonder why they don't have reading sections for Japanese or Arabic, where it would have helped immensely? But overall, I'm amazed at how much I've gotten in only a week. kanewai on 08 January 2012 |
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Assimil L'arabe: Lessons 28-35
After all this study and I feel like I'm just barely past the starting line. It goes beyond that Arabic is difficult. The courses all have major flaws, most teach different dialects so it's hard to use multiple courses, and even the ones that claim to teach "modern" or "spoken" Arabic seem to differ significantly in what they teach! Assimil teaches "arabe moderne." The format is decent, but the audio is crappy and they use case endings that - so I'm told - no one uses in colloquial speech. This past week went well, but I'm really feeling the need for audio right now. I think I'm missing too much by making up my own pronunciations. Pimsleur teaches Eastern Arabic, but they use the same teaching format and progression - and the same dialogues - as for the Romance languages. It's a poor fit. I'm told they also use pronouns and endings that people don't use in colloquial speech. Michel Thomas teaches Egyptian Arabic. Or at least, I'm told that's what it is. He doesn't say on-line. I'm not learning Egyptian, so I'm glad I didn't buy this one. FSI teaches a formal written Arabic, but there is little instruction and no way to check your work. I hit a wall after Lesson 10. - So this next week I'm going to try an experiment. I signed up for a week at http://arabicpod.net/ - Arabic Pod , and have downloaded pdf's of a bunch of their beginner lessons. I'm going make my own Assimil-type study guide this week, and see how it goes. I've liked their podcasts, though I've only listened to them and have never tried to seriously study them. kanewai on 11 January 2012 |
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!ۧÙۯ۱ۏ۩
(Maghrebi Arabic) My last book arrived last night: Méthode d'arabe maghrébin moderne (Moktar Djebli, L'Harmatttan Press, Paris, 1988). I was worried that it would be more Moroccan-focused, but it turns out the author was born in Kef, Tunisia, and educated in Syria and Paris. It looks like a normal coursebook: 44 lessons with a brief recorded dialogue, lots of vocabulary, then grammar exercises. There is only an hour of recordings for the whole book, and they sound rough, like something you'd hear coming across the radio in an old WWII movie. But it's Tunisian! And it has been difficult finding material, so I'm happy with it. I already have Arabe Tunisien: Kit de Conversation (Assimil) - so I think I must have the only two books on Tunisian Arabic in print. I think I have enough materials now to put aside all my colloquial/modern/fus7ha materials and move straight on to "al-derja." kanewai on 11 January 2012 |
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MLK Weekend
I thought I'd use the 3-day holiday to do some intensive studying. Life intervened. I finished up a lot of the lessons I had started doing the week, so I still made some solid progress: Italian - Finished MT disc 2. Like the first disc, I think it took me four to five hours to finish the hour-long cd! I'm still enjoying the course. I like his focus on verbs and structure, and it's the perfect course for the gym. Except for the part where people might see me talking to myself while on the stairmaster. I'm hoping it comes across as lovingly eccentric and not batshit crazy. French - I finished the first seven lessons of Using French, and continued with the Active Phase of French With Ease. I like Using French a lot so far. The language feels more natural. I can understand the structure of each lesson even if I don't understand the words on first listen, which is a nice feeling! I started listening to RFI again too. I can read along and it makes perfect sense, but I don't understand much if I listen to it cold. I rented Last Year at Marienbad (1961). It's an intriguing film, but a bit too surreal and poetic to really help me with my French! Next weekend I'll move back to standard narratives. I've also finished up to Lesson 11 of Pimsleur 3. It is just useful enough for me to not throw it in the trash, so I'll finish it. This week's irritation: the speakers have started speaking unnaturally fast, as if rapid-fire dialogue made the course more "advanced." I've never heard French spoken this fast in real life. Maghrebi Arabic - I finished up to Lesson 12. The dialogues are very simple, which I like. I've been practicing transcribing them into Arabic script while I listen, which I could never do with the other courses. The big differences I've noticed between Maghrebin and Standard Arabic so far are that a lot of the vowels disappear. So, "dakhala" becomes "dkhal," and "madrasa" becomes "madrsa." It makes it easier for me - there's less pieces of information to remember. Maghrebin also has a present-tense verb for "to be" (rĂĄ_). I can say "ana Michael" (me, Michael) or "rĂĄni Michael" (I am Michael). I am pretty you can't do this in Egyptian or Levantine. kanewai on 17 January 2012 |
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Italian It only took me three sessions to finish MT's 3rd disc, and I'm well on
my way to finishing the fourth - though I might have to repeat many of the recent lessons a few times. Part of the reason I'm moving through faster is that Michel Thomas is having quite a few "senior moments," and so many of the segments aren't helpful. There's an extended dialogue where he lectures the students on the difference between "won't" and "want" in English - although they were speaking properly, and he was mis-hearing them. There's another segment where he confuses "dove" and "devo" in Italian. For about ten minutes he reverses them. It was especially odd given that he had previously spent quite a bit of time drilling on them. I don't know why these weren't edited out. I still enjoy the program, and would buy the next Advanced Course if I didn't have enough materials already. I'm just a bit shocked that these made the final cut. kanewai on 21 January 2012 |
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It's true that there aren't exactly great materials out there for Arabic, each set
seems to have its flaw alright. If you just want conversational Arabic, Arabicpod is an awesome resource, and it seems like you are having fun with Maghrebi :) I love the sound of the dialects from Morocco and Algeria - and the music! If you want to learn the proper grammar of MSA and get more serious, it is actually a good idea to learn the vowel endings. Even if people don't say them anymore, they contain a lot of information about grammar which can help you understand the entire structure of the language. There is a great course available for free that comes with DVDs of the lessons as well as free books - at lqtoronto.com The only downside is the teacher's pronunciation is a bit off so if you do give it a go you will need to make sure you aren't copying the sounds he makes. Their method of teaching is great though, at least it was for me. I'm just about to finish the first book and it has done wonders for my Arabic! Wish I'd found it sooner! Good luck with the rest of your studies, I'm impressed at hpw many Romance languages you are learning at once! I'm doing French as well and already know Spanish - I think I would have got them mixed up if I was at similar levels. Quabazaa on 23 January 2012 |
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Thanks! At some point I'll move back to MSA. I'm heading to Tunisia with friends this
Spring, so that was my impetus to switch to Maghrebi for awhile. One of our group is Egyptian, and even he says he can't understand Tunisians! I tried two Romance languages a few months back, Spanish and French, and it was too hard. I'm further on in my French now, and am a complete beginner in Italian, so this attempt has been a lot easier. kanewai on 23 January 2012 |
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Ooh lucky you that sounds wonderful! Yes better to make the most of using Tunisian /
Maghrebi Arabic. Let me know if you ever have any questions about MSA, I am far from proficient but I have spent a few years tussling with this beast now so hopefully I have some decent tips. After MSA I plan to improve my Lebanese, and finally I would work on bein g able to speak Maghrebi. At least it's three languages for (almost) the price of one?! :) Ah that makes sense! Once my French is a little more solid I have been thinking of starting Portuguese. I really shouldn't take on another language, but since I can already understand people from Brazil and have a portuñol conversation, surely it wouldn't take me long to be speaking it. The hard part would be making sure I was actually speaking Portuguese and not turning it into Spanish! Quabazaa on 24 January 2012 |
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I'm so busy during the week, but still have time to study each of my three languages. I
have all the time in the world over the weekend, yet it's a struggle to do even minimal amounts. For this week I'm sticking to Maghrebi over lunch, Italian at the gym, and French after dinner. At some point I'll rotate. I'm feeling the urge to do more French audio (so, the gym), and the Maghrebi is starting to demand more formal study time (so, home after dinner). That leaves Italian for lunch! I've been keeping to pretty basic goals for each week: one set of seven Assimil lessons for French; one Michel Thomas CD for Italian; and however many lessons of Maghrebi I can fit in. If I finish these early I'll add in my "second tier" choices: FSI for French, and Pimsleur for Italian. It's been nice going back to FSI! I was starting to miss the concrete drills; sometimes Assimil is a bit too non-linear. I'd love to finish FSI Volume II before April, but it's a long shot - I'm on Chapter 15 out of 24, and it takes me one to two weeks per chapter. kanewai on 25 January 2012 |
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Week Four: Resource Update
It has really helped me to have a variety of materials to work with. I have a main course for each of my target languages, and will do some from other courses if I've met my goals for the week. Or if I'm bored and need a change. The main challenge is keeping track of where I left off on my secondary resources. I used Google calendars for awhile, but now just check `em off on a spreadsheet. These are the materials I've settled on for the next couple months: French Current focus: Assimil French with Ease (last parts of active phase) Assimil Using French Secondary focus: Pimsleur French III FSI Volume II Le Petite Prince and a random collection of podcasts, graphic novels, and movies Later: Michel Thomas Perfect (formerly, MT Advanced) Michel Thomas Master Class I've been collecting French material all year, and think I have a good chance to complete all these (except for the FSI) by April Maghrébi Arabic Current focus: Méthode d'arabe maghrébin moderne Later: Assimil Arabe tunisien de poche Italian Current focus: Michel Thomas Italian Total (formerly, MT Foundation) Secondary focus: Pimsleur I Later: FSI Italian FAST Pimsleur II I can't possibly finish all these by April. Catalan Later: Teach Yourself: Complete Catalan I haven't bought this yet, and I'll only start Catalan if I can get my Italian up to a passable level first. kanewai on 25 January 2012 |
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French
I'm getting a little impatient with Assimil. There's nothing in particular, I just think it's time for a break. I want to finish the Active Wave of French with Ease, at least to Chapter 100 (so, eight to go). I'll skip the last 12, as it revolved around a dull story about a couple looking for work. I know how the story ends, and I don't feel like reading it again! I think the Passive / Active wave of Assimil is brilliant. I like going back and re- doing earlier chapters. At first I could transcribe most of the chapter without difficulty, but more and more the dialogues involve slang and idioms that aren't repeated. It's hard to retain much when you only encounter a phrase once or twice. Maghrébi I only finished one section of my book this week, but I did it right. When I'm finished with the exercises I go back and listen to the dialogue & transcribe it. I've never attempted this before, and it is helping a lot. side: who are these people that keep posting that they "learned the alphabet in a day?" I'm not buying it. You might be able to recognize the isolated forms in a day, but I do not believe that you can become comfortable using Arabic script that quickly. Italian I'm almost finished with MT's Foundation Course. I've enjoyed it far more than I thought I would. I've been doing some Pimsleur too when I have extra time. It's been a nice combination - I feel like I have more context now when I'm doing Pimsleur. This week it's more of the same, and then next week I'll switch everything up again. kanewai on 30 January 2012 |
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Week 5: Midweek Change Up
This is how my week went: Friday: I am so far behind my goals. I suck. I'm not learning anything. Saturday: Actually, I'm doing pretty good! Look at the amazing progress I've made! Sunday: Just ... a little more ... I can get past this hump. Just ... one more hour ... Monday: I love Assimil! Tuesday: I hate Assimil! Wednesday: I can't do three at once. I need to drop one. Or add one! I want to learn Catalan! Yeah! I knew my brain was gonna snap if I tried three languages at once. So I'm moving French into "passive" mode. I've downloaded a bunch of free French literature on my kindle, installed a French-English dictionary, and found their respective audio recordings on Librovox. I'll spend February with recreational reading rather than active studying. I'm looking forward to it. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry - Le Petit Prince http://librivox.org/20000-lieues-sous-les-mers-by-jules-vern e/ - Vingt mille lieues soul les mers - Jules Verne http://librivox.org/le-mystere-de-la-chambre-jaune-by-gast&# 111;n-leroux/ - Le mystÚre de la chambre jeune - Gaston Leroux http://librivox.org/a-lombre-des-jeunes-filles-en-fleur-by-m arcel-proust-0905/ - A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs - Marcel Proust We'll see if I can actually manage Proust, even with an English translation on hand. Come March I'll get back to Michel Thomas, and I'd like to finish Assimil and FSI down the road. kanewai on 01 February 2012 |
Heh, how do you know how my week was like? ;-) No, just kidding, but I really do understand you. I usually think I'm not studying enough and sometimes this is true. But, well, I have a life outside language learning. I've taken a little break from French myself for a few days last week because my head was spinning and I couldn't put one straight sentence together anymore, so I skipped my weekend language plans (can't put French on passive because I'm surrounded by it on weekdays) and now I'm back in the saddle. Oh, and about the want to start another language, I'm struggeling since 2 weeks whether I should start Armenian yet or not. Logic tells me no, there are so many things to achieve beforehand, but still it's oh so tempting ... Bon courage! Mani on 02 February 2012 |
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Week 6: Michel Thomas vs Pimsleur
Italian I finished Michel Thomas's Foundation Course this weekend. I enjoyed it, and will probably work my way through it again. I've also done 15 lessons of Pimsleur I. And I can finally weigh in on the MT v Pimsleur debate! Points for Michel Thomas: Lessons are short. Lessons are pleasant to listen to, so you're likely to repeat them. I like his explanations of the structure of the language. But: After Pimsleur I and II in Spanish I was ready to have very basic conversations. I don't feel like that after MT. I understand more with MT, but can say less. Pimsleur can stand alone as a course. Michel Thomas does not feel like a 'stand-alone' course. However, with Pimsleur I sometimes feel like I'm stumbling my way through the dark. Doing Pimsleur after MT, though, has been great - I have a context in which to understand the Pimsleur dialogues. And while I am a Pimsleur fan, I hate repeating lessons. They're quite dull on a second listen. If I were starting a new language, I would absolutely recommend Michel Thomas >> Pimsleur I >> Pimsleur II >> {FSI, Assimil, a grammar book} If I were going on a trip and just wanted to hold basic touristic conversations, I'd stick with Pimsleur I and II. Also in Italian This Week: I had a copy of the second lesson from Linguaphone AllTalk. I did not like it. It was structured too much like a classroom course, with conjugation charts and vocabulary drills right off the start. I will not be buying this course, and it is no longer on my wish list! I did start FSI Italian FAST, and like it. FAST is more breezy than the Basic course. I did Lesson 1 in less than an hour. I'm not sure if a lesson a day is a realistic pace for all 30 lessons, but it would be fantastic if it were! French I continue to enjoy Le Petite Prince in parallel text. It's such a standard that it's easy to forget how good it is. Maghrébi Still moving along. I'm only on Lesson 18, but already I can see major differences between Derja and Standard Arabic. It seems to have the same basic ground rules as Arabic (8 Forms of Verbs, masdar, same pronouns and endings, etc.), but otherwise it feels like a new language. kanewai on 06 February 2012 |
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As I'm going through with Pimsleur and MT, I have to say I agree with you. MT for me is more reinforcement at this point with some additional flavoring, but Pimsleur right now is my audio bread and butter
blackdahlia on 07 February 2012 |
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I think my Italian is already better than my Arabic. This is sobering, since I've been
plugging away at Arabic for months, and on and off for years, and I've only been at Italian for six weeks. I've been watching "Parlez-moi de la pluie," (French, 2008). It's easy enough to watch, but there is no need to add it to your netflix queues. I could barely understand a word of it, even with the subtitles on. I don't know if it was the accents, or if it was all slang, or if my mind just won't think in French this week - though I've been reading French with few problems at all. I've been putting more pressure on myself lately ... it's a bit over two weeks before "decision time" - when I need to decide whether to study CatalĂ for a month, and pause on the Italian, or not. I really want to! But I don't want to short-shrift my main languages (I'm in Arabic and French for the long term; I'm only flirting with CatalĂ and Italian). kanewai on 09 February 2012 |
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Arabic just loves to make you feel humble. My sad moment came when I watched an interview
in CatalĂ and realised (without having ever studied it) that I understood more of it than I did Arabic thanks to my Spanish and French abilities. Perhaps it should just be something to make you grateful about how easy Italian is in comparison! I saw two great movies lately that you might like, both in a mix of Algerian Arabic and French: "Hors La Loi" and "IndigĂšnes". I thoroughly enjoyed them both, they both relate to North Africans fighting in the second world war for France. Hors La Loi is set during the war in Algeria, about a resistance movement on French soil. Quabazaa on 10 February 2012 |
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Thanks for the movie recs! I really liked IndigĂšnes, and will add Hors la
loi to my queue. I have Halfaouine (Boys of the Terraces) at home now. I don't know much about it, beyond that they used a hammam I want to visit as one of their locations. Meanwhile: Crunch Time I leave for Europe in 40 days, and am shifting away from learning new material towards cleaning up my conversational skills, and solidifying what I know. For me, conversation=Pimsleur, but the thought of doing Pimsleur lessons in three different languages each day sounded awful. Instead, I've decided to try rotating my language. One day everything will be in Italian, one day French, then the next Arabic. I don't think this is a sustainable method, but I think it'll work for the next six weeks. I have so many resources for French and Italian (movies, podcasts, music Pimsleur, Michel Thomas, Assimil, novels, and graphic novels!) that it's kind of fun to immerse myself. I figure, as long as I do one or two "real" course lessons each day, the rest can be the fun stuff. This will be more of a challenge for Maghrebi Arabic. kanewai on 16 February 2012 |
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You may have said earlier, but where are you going in Europe?
I'm jealous! I hope you have fun. I'm hoping to get over there next summer, not sure where, but somewhere I can practice my French. blackdahlia on 17 February 2012 |
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It's an epic trip: 6 days Barcelona, 6 in Rome, 10 days Tunisia, and 6 days Paris. It's
been my incentive to study hard! And, since I really need to not spend any money between now and then, studying gives me a good excuse to stay home at night. kanewai on 18 February 2012 |
Good for you! And I know about not spending money. I swear everything looks attractive when you're on a tight budget blackdahlia on 18 February 2012 |
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I'm not sure where my weekend went. I had such grand ambitions, too! Instead, I'm just plugging away here.
I listened to some Tunisian podcasts. The speakers seem to mix up French and Derja in equal measure. I actually understood a few phrases - wiin el-flous? (where is the money?) and fi beit Lady Gaga (in the house of Lady Gaga ... hmmm ... I might not have gotten that one right) . In the Romantic Zone, I'm finishing up Pimsleur French III, which has been helpful as a review, and have started Pimsleur Italian II. I've also done a bit with the FSI FAST courses in each. FAST really is fast! They introduce a concept and move on. I don't have a lot of time for Italian, so it's been a great way to get a lot of exposure in a short amount of time. For French I feel like I'm in a holding pattern. It's time for me to get over there and start speaking 24-7 so that I can judge where I'm really at, and what I need to work on. I don't think I'll attempt three languages at one time again, although it's been a good experience in learning 'how to learn.' It's definitely easier for me to focus on one language per day, and to rotate days. I find that I can ramp up better, and then settle in and find a groove. I just have to keep a calendar to remember which language is on for that day! kanewai on 21 February 2012 |
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Yesterday was "French Day." I finished up Le Petit Prince, and am ready to start the next book on my list. I re-visited Assmil Using French (Chapters 20 and 21), but found that I really wasn't that interested in the course. Odd. I think I'm impatient now for the rewards of either conversation or good writing; I don't want to plod my way through another course!
Today is "Arabic" day, which is the challenging one. There aren't good recordings for Maghrebi a la Pimsleur or Michel Thomas, so on my commute I listen to vocab and phrase lists from my Assimil Tunisia Kit. It's not quite the same as listening to a conversation. This makes my Arabic day a bit harder than my Italian or French days. Now, I've done parts of FSI and Assimil and Teach Yourself and Arabic Podcast for MSA, and it feels like I've studied four related but different languages. And I've studied with Maghrébin Modern and the Assimil Tunisian Guide de Poche, and these feel like they involve two different languages on top of that. I do like the Tunisian Guide, though, and wish that Assimil's Catalan Guide also had recordings. Ah well. kanewai on 22 February 2012 |
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ETA: I read your post on my log right after I posted here and it answered my question. :)
blackdahlia on 23 February 2012 |
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I can barely handle three languages, so why not do five? There's a flaw in my logic somewhere. My thinking went something like this:
1. Studying three languages is hard! I think I'll only do it this one time ... 2. But I really should brush up on my Spanish, so maybe I'll work in a few Pimselur lessons right before I go ... maybe I'll do a five-day Spanish intensive ... 3. I'm at a comfortable place with French, and I've learned far more than i thought of Italian; maybe I should think about trying to do ten days focused on Spanish. 4. And ooh, the new Teach Yourself Catalan is only $27, I can squeeze some Catalan in there, I think ... I wonder how much I could learn in a week? kanewai on 25 February 2012 |
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Hey, there are days I can't handle even one, and I've got six I try to study at least every other day.
Besides, I always make the excuse that Spanish, French, and Italian are (kind of) like dialects of the same language. Well, they're not, but . . . it helps me justify over-extending myself. =) Kerrie on 25 February 2012 |
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Rotating days is working for me so far. It's not a perfect system, but it's the best I
can pull off right now. French My "French" days are the easiest. I'm further along, so there's a lot less formal studying involved. I finished up Pimsleur III last week. I was worried it would be deathly boring at this point, but it turned out to be my favorite of the series. In part it's because there was not much new, and I was mostly solidifying my base. Today I moved on to Michel Thomas Advanced. This is also mostly review for me, but also very helpful. I listen to it on my commute. I started 20,000 Lieus Sou le Mer, and have been doing it "Assimil-style" - I listen to the Librivox recording while reading the English text. I go back later and re-read the French. The nice thing about the free Kindle versions of these books is that they tend to be word-for-word translations. It's not very artistic or elegant, but it's great for us students! I also started Aux Heures Impaires, a graphic novel about a deaf night-watchman who counsels the art at the Louvre. I like the reading enough that I do it on my non-French days too. I do need to finally study French literary tenses, though. I'll put that on my to-do list tonight. Italian My Italian day involves listening to Pimsleur II on my commute, and doing an FSI FAST Chapter at home or over lunch. I go pretty quickly through the FSI; it takes about 90" per lesson. If I were a more serious student I would be spending twice that time on it. Right now I'm just seeing how far I can get. I find that it takes me longer to 'turn on' my Italian. I flounder for the first five minutes or so before it clicks. This was an issue when I was trying to do three languages a day, each in small doses. It's not so bad when I know that I'll be coming back to Italian throughout the day - once it clicks on, it tends to stay on for the day. Arabic And here I suffer. I don't have a good Maghrebi audio-course, so I listen to my phrase book on my commute. It's not the same at all. And my coursebook doesn't have a dictionary, and not all North African words pop up on on-line dictionaries. The result is that I spend half my time each session looking up words, and referencing my grammar sheets, and I never quite get a flow. kanewai on 28 February 2012 |
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Teach Yourself Catalan arrived yesterday, and all I could think was, 'oh crap.' It wasn't due until next week, and even then I had no real idea how I was going to integrate Catalan into my studies.
But now it's here. And though I'd like to say I put the course on the shelf, I did exactly what 90% of everyone on this forum would do - downloaded the audio onto my computer, and started on the first chapter. I think I'm gonna give up on trying to follow my spreadsheet for awhile, and just go day by day for awhile. Since when did Amazon deliver things early??? kanewai on 29 February 2012 |
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Oh, I get stuff from them in 2-3 days, usually. =)
And I think you're underestimating us. I think more than 90% of us would have picked the book up and started working on it right away! Sometimes it's nice to take a break from the routine of things and just go with it. Enjoy it! Kerrie on 29 February 2012 |
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T minus 4 Weeks
And my brain hasn't exploded yet. Italian and French are the only two languages that I have good audio to work with on my commute, so I alternate them. I read Jules Verne over lunch, and if I'm still conscious by the time I get home I work on Arabic, written Italian, or Catalan. Except that I should try and keep Italian and Catalan to separate days, so this might get complicated. French French is taking less and less brain power ... I think that's a sign that I'm finally reaching a stable level. 20000 lieus sur le mer - Our heroes have finally met the mysterious Captain Nemo. This has turned out to be a very enjoyable read. Aux heures impaires - His girlfriend left him, his only friend thinks he's nuts, Winged Victory has learned to fly, l'enfant Henry IV is smashing things in the atrium, and La Jaconda just winked at him. Our hero is having a rough time of it. Michel Thomas Advanced - Up until now MT has been a review. On CD 2 he actually entered into new territory for me. This was a nice surprise. I usually can do a full CD (one hour) in a single day. Maghrébi Arabic Méthode d'arabe maghrébin moderne - I've made it to Lesson 24. It's slow going. The focus now is on the masdar and the various verb forms. I'm not sure how much I need to know all this ... I like the Assimil / Pimsleur style of teach you to read and speak first, and explaining the underlying mechanics afterwards. Assimil Arabe tunisien de poche - At some point I'm going to have to dive in and just start memorizing phrases. I know more grammar than vocabulary, so at least I can figure out the structure of each phrase. Italian Pimsleur II - I did Lesson 11 today, and struggled. Maybe I was just tired - I even forgot my shirt this morning (I bike commute, so this isn't as mental as it sounds). Or maybe it's because I tried some Catalan last night, and it's too soon to be adding a new Romance language. The lesson wasn't even hard - but I kept tripping up over the small things, the de da a alle il gli et al., and couldn't seem to remember the second person casual tense at all. This will be the first lesson I need to repeat. FSI Italian FAST - This has been good for vocabulary, and for seeing how the language is actually spelled (I didn't do the Pimsleur readings). The conversations are a bit less dated than in FSI French Basic, and the pace is a lot faster. If I were aiming for fluency I'd still go for the full FSI course. Catalan Teach Yourself: Complete Catalan - This is going to be a challenge. The book is arranged nicely, and has clear notes marking which audio tracks correlate with which lesson. But Lesson 1 is dense - there's a lot of grammar right off the bat, and the pronunciation is different enough that I can't just look at it and "get it." Català sounds pretty sexy, though, so that's some motivation. kanewai on 01 March 2012 |
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Michel Thomas Advanced - The third CD has entered into more complex verb tenses. We now have sentences like, vous l'auriez acheté si vous l'aviez vu
This is definitely beyond Pimsleur III, and beyond FSI Volume I. I'm sure Assimil touched on these, but not enough for me to use them with confidence. I do remember these from college, and I remember hating them. Our professor surprised us with the plus-que-parfait one Monday, and all I thought was, 'what the hell do I need with that? Don't we have enough tenses already?' Thankfully, M. Thomas is not worrying us with what to call these tenses, or with complex definitions; he's just focusing on getting us to use them. I can't imagine tackling the MT Advanced Course right after the Foundation Course. It seems like there's a big jump there. kanewai on 02 March 2012 |
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Ooh, that's good to know.
I forget, have you looked at FSI Vol 2? If not, do you plan to incorporate that in? Note to self: go finish MT Basic Course blackdahlia on 05 March 2012 |
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T minus 3 Weeks
blackdahlia - I did a couple lessons of FSI Volume 2. I find that FSI takes more mental focus, so it's harder to do when I'm juggling multiple languages. I also wanted to focus on speaking skills a bit more. Come May I think I'll just focus on French again, and go back to FSI and Assimil. Catalan And we're off! The first chapter of Teach Yourself covered the alphabet, gender, numbers, pronouns, the present tense of "to be," the present tense of the reflexive "to be called," (i.e., 'my name is'). It was a lot to take in. I resorted to the old-school methods of cramming and memorizing. Derja Tunisia Switching to cramming and memorizing here, also. I have enough of a base that I can provide a context to the phrases in my book. But if I may vent: The vocabulary list in the back of the Assimil book only lists half of the words they use in the dialogues, and because it is the Tunisian dialect I can't find the words in a regular Arabic dictionary. There is no vocabulary list for my MaghrĂ©bi book, or for FSI. Nor do either of these provide a translation for their dialogues, or an answer key for their exercises. It is extremely frustrating. French MT Advanced, CD3 starts off with a review of the 19 tenses he's covered so far. I might spend all day just on this five minute section! I also downloaded a bucket-load of free and inexpensive French classic literature. Here's what I've found ... The A-List: Free audio on http://librivox.org/ - LibriVox ; free / $1 Kindle versions in both English and French: - Jules Verne, 20000 lieus sur le mer - Jules Verne, La tour du monde en quatre-vingt jours - Jeanne-Marie Leprince de Beaumont, La Belle et La BĂȘte - Gaston Leroux, Le mystĂšre de la chambre jeune - Charles Perrault, Histoires ou contes du temps passĂ© - Marcel Proust, A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fluers ("Within a Budding Grove" in English. What an awful translation.) It looks like people are currently working on the audio for Victor Hugo's Notre-Dame de Paris and Les MisĂšrables. The B-List: Free / $1 Kindle versions in English and French, but no audio: - Gaston Leroux, FantĂŽme de l'opĂ©ra - Stendhal, La Chartreuse De Parme (The Charterhouse of Parma) - Gustave Flaubert, Madame Bovary - HonorĂ© de Balzac, Le pĂ©re Goriot - Marcel Proust, Du cĂŽtĂ© de chez Swann (I already had Lydia Davis's beautiful English translation, which is not free) I suppose that's enough for one lifetime, eh? kanewai on 05 March 2012 |
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I'm having the same problem with the Michel Thomas Advanced course in Italian. It makes my head swim!
Kerrie on 05 March 2012 |
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Thirty minutes from the end of the last tape, and Michael Thomas says, "there is one
more thing I have to tell you ..." Dammit. Really. I'm almost finished, I've just mastered nineteen tenses, it's the home stretch, and now you say "one more thing???" "... we have something in French called the subjunctive ... " and I hang my head in defeat. Of course. I was trying to pretend that it didn't exist; I was hoping that this mood would just stay quiet and not bother me. The thunder was so loud last night I couldn't sleep, so I rode out the storm curled up on the couch with the subjunctive and my cat. kanewai on 06 March 2012 |
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Nineteen verb tenses !!!
Are you kidding me ? or as they say here in Québec "Tu me niaise-tu ?" I think you could throw out 10 and still have too many. Francophones tell me they use maybe 4-6 in spoken French. Good luck with the subjunctive, my language partner tells me he doesn't even use that but of course he does, he just doesn't notice. microsnout on 06 March 2012 |
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Do you know about http://www.litteratureaudio.com/ - Litterature Audio ? They may have some of the audio books you haven't found yet and their recordings are much more uniform than Librivox.
Wow is it really 19? I'll pretend I didn't hear that and continue without getting depressed :P Quabazaa on 07 March 2012 |
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Literature Audio looks like an incredible resource, thanks!
In the end the French subjunctive wasn't so hard after all. And even the nineteen tenses isn't as hard as it sounds ... he includes passive and active voice in his count, and some of the tenses that are different in English (such as 'he sells the house' and 'he is selling the house') are the same in French. They add up quickly! The real benefit of these last CD's, though, is going to be with my reading. I often gloss over the nuances when I read; as long as I recognized the verb and basic tense I haven't focused too much on whether it is in the conditional, imperfect, subjunctive, etc. I moved on to the Language Builder. If anyone is looking to buy it, a word of warning: it is not done in anything remotely like the same style as his Foundation and Advanced Courses. It is more like one long run-on sentence, where you are expected to hit 'pause' and translate the phrase he gives you. There are no students, and he barely takes a breath or gives you a chance to actually hit the pause button. Imagine two hours of: He wants to go there il veut y aller he would go there il voudrait y aller he would go il voudrait so he would go there il voudrait y aller I'm going to put this one aside for the moment. It will be nice as a refresher, and will help me get some of the most common phrases down. One of the challenges I find with courses like Assimil is that they teach a lot, but it's hard to tell which idioms are common and which are rare, or which ones we really should work on remembering. Michel Thomas Language Builder does seem more focused on the set phrases that we could use every day. Catalan and Italian I'm trying to keep these to their own separate days, but I really should be doing a bit of them each on every day. What I find fascinating is that I can finally see how Romantic languages exist on a continuum. Italian, French, and Spanish all appear very distinct. Catalan is also very distinct from those three, but once you look at all four the distinctions start to blur. kanewai on 08 March 2012 |
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That language builder course sounds to me like the review CD that comes with the
courses, right? (or at least it came with my beginner's and advanced courses) Maybe I'm mis-understanding your description, but it's basically just him saying the phrase without any real pauses and you having to come up with it very quickly to keep up. That's exactly like my review CDs. That's also how I helped myself with my conjugation fluency in Italian: I went through that CD several times until I could just respond without even needing to hit pause. Now I really don't even need to think much to come out with something like "non avrebbe dovuto essere cosĂŹ" (it shouldn't have been this way). I also practiced some scriptorium using this tape, which turns into speed writing with the pace. Of course, it's not so necessary to practice scriptorium in a language that uses the roman alphabet, but it was a way to do something different while still reviewing, and I think engaging the hand muscles does do something for activating learning. Hendrek on 08 March 2012 |
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Hendrek, that's exactly what I meant. I think I will come back to these cd's in a few weeks, when I'm more in a 'review and refresh' mode. I'd love to reach a point in Italian where this format would be useful, but I'm still at the beginners stage there.
kanewai on 09 March 2012 |
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Arabic makes me want to cry. I try so hard, but the ground keeps shifting under me.
So Assimil Tunisien conjugates verbs a bit differently than the Maghrebi Book, but then doesn't follow their own verb charts with half the examples they use, they don't explain the exceptions, and then they give you the thirty most important verbs, but there is no hint for which pattern of conjugation any of them follow. I was going to go back to the Maghrebi book, but some of their exercises uses words that they haven't defined yet - and this book lacks a dictionary or answer key or even translations of the text. I quit. _________________________________________ I stumbled on Italian this weekend also. I can't seem to do Pimsleur II, Lesson 18. There's not even anything new ... my brain just refuses to grasp it, and I get about 30% of the responses. And I remember hitting this same point in Spanish; there was a point where the "Pimsleur Method" stopped being effective. With Spanish I did some normal text book work, went back, and was able to finish Pimsleur. I wonder if it's inherent in the course; they build a good base, but not quite good enough to maintain over two full courses. Or rather, you need to do outside work to be able to finish both levels. Luckily I have FSI Italian FAST as a backup, so I'll work on it this weekend. I also started re-watching Il Gattopardo (The Leopard), which I think is one of the greatest movies of all time. It's fun being able to actually understand some of the dialogue. I've decided to make it an Italian weekend. Or maybe even an Italian week. kanewai on 11 March 2012 |
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Have you tried to find any native speakers of the dialect you're learning? I know there are lots of sites to hook up with people for conversations and stuff, but I've found helpful people on livemocha. You can do a search for Arabic speakers in Tunisia. They sort by your last login, so the people you come up the first few pages are active. If you find someone with a higher teacher score, that usually means they are happy to help. If you could find a few native speakers of that dialect, at least they might be able to help answer some questions. Might be worth a shot, anyways.
Kerrie on 11 March 2012 |
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Can't help with the Arabic as I've never so much as glanced at the language beyond loan words during my attempts at Farsi.
However, with Italian, I did all 3 levels of Pimsleur pretty early on. About halfway through the second set though is I think when I started really supplementing with other materials, above all Assimil. Beyond the second Pimsleur, I was really just using it for pronunciation practice more than learning useful vocabulary and grammar. For whatever reason, I didn't use FSI for Italian. 3 other books I would recommend would be, Italian Made Simple (VERY useful for me starting out), Colloquial Italian (the old 1924 or 1957 reprint one) and the Cortina Method. These were very cheap online; I found the made simple series for one dollar each. Colloquial Italian is really amazing, as it's such a tiny book, yet every time I glance through it -- even now -- I seem to learn something new. Finally, I think every weekend should be an Italian weekend. Hope it's going well. Hendrek on 12 March 2012 |
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I have all of the Cortina Method books and most of the Made Simple books, and I like the way they are laid out, too. I haven't looked at the Italian Made Simple, but the Cortina book is really archaic in some respects. They still introduce the egli, essi, and esse forms. I've found some really odd vocabulary in it as well. I like the setup of the method, though, as long as you go into it being aware that some of it's archaic.
Kerrie on 12 March 2012 |
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Hendrek: I liked the Italian weekend so much, I think I'll do it again!
Kerrie: I haven't tried finding live speakers yet. I always seem to avoid that last step. But my frustrations with Arabic go beyond that. I'm just not seeing much return on the investment of time and energy that I've put into the language. I'm starting to think that there's just not enough good materials out there to do self-study. Or that there even are any good materials out there - the best programs in Arabic are still marginal. Maybe if I were to go at it full time ... but I don't have enough time. And part of the problem is, I no longer trust the books I'm using. I finished watching http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20 030914/REVIEWS08/309140302/1023 - Il Gattopardo last night. I'm still in awe of the beauty and power of that movie. And my six weeks of Italian at 30" a day actually helped me to understand some of the nuances of the dialogue. Not a lot, for sure, but enough to make the experience even more rewarding. I'm now up to lesson 21 of Pimsleur II, and Lesson 10 of FSI FAST (out of 34). I'll give it a few more days, and then I really do want to start focusing on Catalan. I also restarted Using French; I wanted something that was a little bit more active than just reading. I also have the time and energy for it now that I've set the Arabic texts aside! kanewai on 13 March 2012 |
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I finished Pimsleur II Italian, and FSI FAST Lesson 11, on Friday. I figure that gives
me a solid 60 hours + of studying since January. I've read that most people need 75 hours to reach CEFR A-1, and that seems about right - I figure a couple days in Rome and I'll be comfortable at that level. Now it's Catalan's turn. I did some basic stuff about ten days ago, but didn't really focus until this weekend. I only have one book, and it requires me to actually sit down and study - it feels so old-fashioned! Realistically, I'm aiming for having a nice accent and being able to speak very basic phrases. But ... I still have a fantasy that I can do more! After putting so much time into French, Spanish, and Italian this past year, Catalan almost seems familiar. I might not reach A1 in record time, but I intend to make a go at it. kanewai on 19 March 2012 |
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3-Month Self Evaluation
I fly out on Sunday, and am in over-drive mode at work, so this is might be my last chance to do a comprehensive post for the next month. I'm sure I'll still do small comments, though! Overall, I am really happy with the progress I've made. There's been a bit of trial and error, and a few dead ends, but I've made pretty solid progress overall. My big issue now is under-estimating the time needed to study properly. For future planning I have to remind myself: You have to put in the time! You have to put in the time! You have to put in the time! Like a mantra. French I started studying regularly 10 months ago, have logged about 300 hours, and think that I'm at a solid A2, with B1 in reach. I have ten days in Tunisia and six in Paris coming up, so I should easily reach a B1 level, & perhaps have a shot at B2. I thought I'd reach this level by the end of December 2011. Silly me. I want to keep moving forward in French. I'll still need lots of work to push onto the mythical C1 level - according to some sources another 200 hours of study. I will need advice on how to do this! I learn better with formal programs than with more free-form studies; I'll finish FSI Volume II and Using French, but I'm not sure what should come next. One great bonus is that I'm comfortable using French-based Assimil texts, which opens up whole new worlds of possibilities. Arabic 7 months, 100 hours, and I still suck. But the available courses also suck. In retrospect, 100 hours of study isn't really enough time to reach even a basic level, even though I had a head start, knew the alphabet, & spoke a little. It turns out that my Maghrébi Book has a second volume with a glossary and answer key. That would have helped immensely. Assimil Tunisien wasn't very useful for learning, although it might come in handy as a phrasebook. As for standard Arabic, I hit a wall with FSI around Chapter 10, and a couple years ago I took "Teach Yourself" about as far as I could. And I hate Assimil Arabic. So I am reluctantly putting Arabic on hold, and don't have plans to tackle it again in the near future. I'll go back to it in a flash, though, if Assimil redoes L'arabe and brings it up to the standard of their other books, or if their new Perfectionnement Arabe gets excellent reviews. Spanish I haven't started on Spanish this year, but it's still on the agenda. In 2011 I did about 65 hours of study, and spent 21 days in México. I still don't speak well, and need a lot more work. A lot of the guys on my canoe team are from Latin countries, and a few others are bilingual. Spanish and Japanese are the two foreign languages I hear most, so it makes sense for me to focus on this once my French is at a more solid level. Italian 3 months, 65 hours of study, and I love this language. I've been picking it up at a very fast rate, probably thanks to my French and limited Spanish. I was doing so well that I put some of the other languages aside so I could just focus on Italian for a few weeks. I'll be solo in Rome for seven days, I'm renting a room from a guy who doesn't speak English, and I will be perfectly happy taking an hour or two out of my day, sitting in a park, and working on another lesson. I might be quite far along after all that! Even I just wrote that I would be going back to Spanish later this summer, but I might just decide to order Assimil's Italian book and do that instead. Català Two weeks, 10 hours. Català , I sacrificed you to focus on Italian. Ho sento. You are far too pretty a language to be treated like that. I thought I could focus on you and you alone this week, but life is so busy right now. I don't have a chance at reaching any kind of decent level in Catalan in the next four days, and I don't even know how much Catalan I'll be exposed to in Barcelona. I'll be with an American friend part of the time who is fluent in Spanish, and we're renting a room from a German guy. I'll put in a few more hours, and see where I get. I won't be touching the other languages for the rest of the month (I promise!). I like that I am now comfortable with the sounds, rhythm, and appearance of Catalan. It doesn't look as 'foreign' to me now, which is a good first step. My initial impulse was to sound it out like Spanish or Italian, but it flows much softer. For those who are considering Català : I love the way it sounds. Someone else on the forums listed it as one of the 'ugly' languages. I beg to differ. I would love to revisit it one day. And the new TY Complete Catalan is very well done. It only has two hours of audio, and I wish it had more. Otherwise, the course is a winner. The Rest If I can't have Arabic, then I want another non-Western language on my docket! The current main contenders are Japanese, Russian, or Turkish. I won't have time to do any serious study, or aim for fluency at this time; I just want to slowly work my way through Assimil, and get a good feel for the language (or, for Turkish, to move on to the next level). kanewai on 21 March 2012 |
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I hope you have a chance to put your French and Italian to great use while you're there!
Have a great trip! =) Kerrie on 21 March 2012 |
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Free Advice for Future Romantics!
If I were starting from scratch on a new Romance language this is how I would do it, based on what has worked for me this year: Stage 1 overlap as needed: 1. Teach Yourself (just the first five to seven lessons). Estimated time: 10-20 hrs. 2. Michel Thomas Foundation. Estimated time: 15 hrs. 3. Pimsleur I and II. Estimated time: 30 hrs. 4. FSI Basic, Volume I. Estimated time: 75 hrs. 5. Assimil. Estimated time: 100 hrs. I think this brings you to a solid A2 level, though a lot of people on HTLAL would say B1. Stage 2 1. Michel Thomas Advanced (a.k.a. Perfect): 20 hrs 2. Pimsleur III. Estimated time: 15 hrs. 3. FSI Basic, Volume II. 75 hrs. 4. Assimil Perfectionnement. 40 hrs. 5. Immersion if possible. This is where I'm at now, aiming for B2. I'll let you know if it works, or where it went wrong if it doesn't! Stage 3: C Level I have no idea. kanewai on 21 March 2012 |
One key thing that I've found (not that I'm actually at a C level yet, though close in passive skills) is to more or less move completely out of the learning materials, and into the "using materials": meaning native materials. Podcasts, articles, movies, songs, books, conversation partners, etc. Hendrek on 21 March 2012 |
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Yay bon voyage! :) Hope you have a great time, which I'm sure you will, and get to use
your languages often. Drop us a line occasionally :D For me C level was all about practise, practise and more practise. Preferably with native speakers in real immersion type situations as well as tons of written and audio input aimed at natives. It also takes a very long time to progress from B2 to C1 and beyond, at least to my satisfaction. Quabazaa on 22 March 2012 |
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Greetings from airport limbo. 30 hours in, 15 to go, and I'm putting Catalan on the shelf. I'm glad that I have
small familiarization with it, but realistically, I won't have much chance to use it, nor enough time to learn it even to A1 level. Whereas, I will need Italian, and I'm much further along. There's a French / Arabic family on the same route who remind me of the Kardashians: they are all loud and beautiful, and there are lots of them. And I speak enough French now to follow all their drama. It's keeping me entertained. kanewai on 27 March 2012 |
Hey, I have a question about your post. For the first half, when you say "Micheal Thomas Foundation", what do you mean? Like with Assimil, there seem to be multiple books and variations of each pack. When you recommend Assimil, do you mean Assimil with Ease, Assimil without Toil etc. Also, I'm curious if any of you ever supplement with college text. I'm in class for Spanish now and as a result, my main source of learning has been the course textbook. With it, I'm already near A1; so with that in mind, would you still recommend all of these in order to achieve A2? Gatsby42 on 27 March 2012 |
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The Michel Thomas courses have different levels. The Foundation/Deluxe course (8 CDs), the Language Builder (2 CDs), the Vocabulary (5 CDs) and the Advanced (4 CDs). You can find them all over the internet, maybe at your library, and Amazon has them.
There are always different versions books and programs. With the Michel Thomas program, I don't think there is a difference (except between the different levels, of course.) Many of the older Assimil texts are superior to the newer versions, but then you have the problem of finding corresponding audio. If you can find a copy of the older (Without Toil) book and audio to go with it, those are usually better. But they're not always easy to find (or affordable!). As for textbooks, most of us here teach ourselves, without classroom learning. Most textbooks are geared to a classroom environment, with multiple students (and a native/fluent teacher). For self-learners, there are a lot more effective materials for most people. Kerrie on 27 March 2012 |
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If you're in a class, I would skip the Teach Yourself series. It's similar enough to a course boom. Michel
Thomas, Pimsleur, and Assimil hit from different angles, so any of them would be a good addition. kanewai on 27 March 2012 |
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Kerrie: Pretty much all the programs seem to be highly expensive. @.@ I already threw
down for my Pimsleur, but I'm not sure how many paychecks away I am for both Assimil and Micheal Thomas. Suppose I'll cross that road when I reach it; thanks for the advice! Kanewai: But not FSI basic? Either way, thanks. Gatsby42 on 28 March 2012 |
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I've been back a week, and have been using Assimil Using French and Jules Verne
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea to keep my French moving forward. I also started listing to RFI again. They've all become much easier, which is interesting. I'm sure that I only used basic sentence constructions while overseas, and probably only simple tenses. And yet my comprehension of more complex written French seems to have made a huge leap. I can understand a lot of the Assimil even before I look at the English text, and I can infer a lot of the vocabulary in Jules Verne now from context, without using the dictionary. This feels like <B1> to me! Next stop: B2. This one is going to be harder, as I don't think it's possible for me to reach that level without actively using the language. There are also going to be fewer and fewer guided resources out there. I'll have to get creative. But first, I have Assimil and - maybe - FSI Volume 2 to finish. __________________________________________ And I'm fighting the urge to start Japanese. Or to restart Spanish. My life is pretty busy right now, and I need to focus on doing one language right. kanewai on 30 April 2012 |
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You should think about doing the Super Challenge that Cristina has organized. It would be great motivation for your French. :D
Kerrie on 01 May 2012 |
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I'm slowly making my way through the Super Challenge thread. At 48 pages, it might take
awhile. 100 actual books in 20 months is completely unrealistic for me, and everyone's wordpress blogs look great but I can't even figure out how to install wordpress - I hope this all gets explained in the thread (I'm on page 19 already). kanewai on 01 May 2012 |
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If it's too much, you can sign up for a half challenge instead (either 100 books OR 100 movies OR 50/50 each). The "rules" are on the first page, but it seems to me rather flexible. The idea is exposure and to push yourself to do more.
I don't have a wordpress blog either - I don't think you have to install anything though. You can either keep track of it all in your log here, and/or you can do it on twitter. If you have specific questions, I might be able to help. =) Kerrie on 01 May 2012 |
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I signed up, and put my lists on http://justpaste.it/kanewai - Just Paste It .
I'm a list maker anyways, so that site fits my style! I haven't really decided how to break it up, though; I think I'll add comments on books and movies here, just keep the list as a straight check-list, and touch base with the Super Challenge thread as needed. With that ... I already have some movie reivews! Garçon Stupide - I thought it would be a silly comedy, but it turned out to be a cinema-verité style drama about a young kid living an empty life full of casual sex and the older man who teaches him about deeper values. I was bored within the first ten minutes, and stopped watching. Hollywoo - This was the first French comedy I've seen in awhile that was actually funny. A Parisian voice actor loses her job when the American actress whom she dubs over quites the business. She flies to LA to convince the American to act again. I saw it on the plane, and really enjoyed it. There was nothing deep; it was more a fish out of water story as the Parisian chick tries to navigate the artificial world of Hollywood. I can't find it on Netflix yet, so I don't know when it will come to the US. Watch it if you get the chance! kanewai on 03 May 2012 |
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I finally caved and joined twitter. Damn you Super Challenge! Though I have doubts
about how useful it will be ... one person already posted 27 films by the eighth day, which seems a bit far fetched to me. I like coming here better and seeing what people actually thought about what they watched. Earlier this week I caught a glimpse of what the next level of French might look like - the level where one would move beyond simply communicating needs, and move into playing with and manipulating the language. It was triggered by Flaubert; I love the way he writes, even though it is difficult for me at this stage. But it was only a glimpse; soon it was back to the grind of solidifying my B-1 skills. That alone will take a couple hundred hours, I think. Assimil Using French got irritating this week (Chaps 36-42). It started off fine, but then there were two chapters on idioms with the verb "faire," one on acronmyms, and one on metaphors. The metaphor chapter in particular was poorly written - there were too many mixed metaphors that made no sense in English, the English translations themselves were archaic, and the footnotes strange and clunky. e.g., one read: "un sigle is translated by the rather pompous English word, an acronym." 'Acronym' seems like a fine word to me, while writing 'rather pompous' is ... rather pompous. I don't trust Assimil with slang, and so I wasn't motivated to focus to hard on these lessons. Or even to stay awake long enough to finish one. It was slow going. On the plus side, I tried watching Game of Thrones in French (Le TrÎne de fer). I usually hate movies that are dubbed into English, but the reverse didn't bother me at all. I've been wanting to watch the series, and I liked it a lot in French. It helped that fantasy dialogue tends to be straightforward; while I still used subtitles I felt that I was understanding most of the French independently. This doesn't happen yet with native movies. kanewai on 09 May 2012 |
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I just tried to do a lesson from FSI Chapter 15. And failed. Sigh. I thought I could
pick up from where I left off, or that it would be easy with all the additional work under my belt. I suppose it's good that I still have @ 100 hours worth of study material here, though, to help with the long climb to B-2. I read somewhere on here that almost no one finished the second level of FSI. That alone is motivation for me to try! Though right now I'm finding Assimil and the Super Challenge challenging enough. FSI is something that I'll get back to, maybe this summer, maybe further on. kanewai on 10 May 2012 |
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I've started thinking of this as 'French Round 3' for me. Round 1 was two years at the University. Round 2 was reaching B-1 over the past year. And now Round 3, where I aim to go from B1 to B2 ...
French Round 3, Week 4: Where I get jumped by the plus-que-parfait du subjonctif The what? you ask. Isn't that one of those tenses in the back of the book that our professors told us that we would never, ever, have to use? Well. Something has escaped from the back of the book. Witness this paragraph from Madame Bovary: Elle se demandait s'il n'y aurait pas eu moyen, par d'autres combinaisons du hasard, de rencontrer un autre homme; et elle cherchait à imaginer quels eussent été ces événements non survenus, cette vie différente, ce mari qu'elle ne connaissait pas*. There's not a single simple tense in there. The 'literary tenses' are beautiful, but it's hard to take it all in at this point - I hit critical mass and all the tenses I had ever learned suddenly merged into a big pile of mush in my brain. I need to do more than just read and assimilate things; I need to set my ass down and do a touch of good old-fashioned studying. My first step will be to make a complete conjugation reference sheet of the top 20 verbs. I should be finishing Assimil in a few weeks, and I'm looking ahead to what to do next. The Super Challenge is great, but I want something structured to work with also. I've narrowed my choices down to three, mostly based on other posts in HTLAL ... has anyone had any experience with any of them? http://www.amazon.com/French-Grammar-Context-Hodde r-Publication/dp/0340968745/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S?ie=UTF8 &coliid=I1BK8WEFGP5LQR&colid=3UV9VRT21Q5IY - French Grammar in Context http://www.amazon.com/Grammaire-Progressive-Francais-Ni veau-Avance/dp/2090338628/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S?ie=UTF8&coliid =I381TBEDEIPUHO&colid=3UV9VRT21Q5IY - Grammaire progressive du Francais / niveau avance http://www.amazon.com/Lexercisier-Manuel-Dexpressio ;n-Francaise-Edition/dp/2706115866/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS ?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3FS886EATEPYN&colid=3UV9VRT21Q5IY - L'exercisier - Manuel d'expression Francaise: CECR B1-B2 ********************************************** (*My take: She asked herself if there might have been another way, by another combination of chance, to have met another man; and she dreamt of events that never happened, the different life, the husband that she never knew.) kanewai on 16 May 2012 |
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Interesting. In 5 years I have never come across the "Plus-que-parfait du subjonctif". I had not even noticed that it
was there in the drop down list of tenses in my dictionary app - but it is. Guess I don't read enough (any ?) literature, hopefully the Super Challenge will fix that.
There are 3 verbs conjugated in a simple tense in that phrase since L'imparfait is a simple tense (i.e. not a compound tense). microsnout on 16 May 2012 |
You just reminded me of why I have started on Mme. Bovary a number of times, but never got beyond page 50 :-) Solfrid Cristin on 16 May 2012 |
There's a parallel text on Amazon that alternates English / French each paragraph. The English is pretty clunky, but it helps a lot - I don't think I'd be able to read at this level without it as a reference. kanewai on 16 May 2012 |
It's not the language I am worried about. It's the content. I find it difficult to feel any sympathy for the heroine. Of course if I had read on I might like her better. Solfrid Cristin on 16 May 2012 |
That was sloppy English on my part. I meant 'simple' as in sentences with one easy clause, as opposes to 'simple' vs. 'compound.'
Maybe not. I can fully understand her as the farm girl dreaming of a more exciting life in Paris - but by the end of Book 1 she was turning nasty, spending all her time reading fashion magazines and taking out her frustrations on her husband. There are no characters yet who I "like" per se, but I'm still finding it a compelling read. There's actually a bit of comic relief in the second book, when starts off in a hotel full of eccentric characters. ------------------------------- I finished one more section of Assimil this weekend. The readings focused on the passé antérieur, which the course insists is the last grammar point that they will be teaching. I hope so. I usually can do a set of seven lessons per week with Assimil. This last set took me almost two weeks! ------------------------------- And I broke down and started Japanese also this weekend. It is a completely irrational move. I don't have the time to commit to it, but now that I've started strong (two Pimsleur lessons and eight Michel Thomas lessons) I'd hate to stop. I'm telling myself I'll keep it slow and steady, and just plod along until I have time to dedicate to it. This didn't work for me for Arabic, so I'm not sure why I think it will for Japanese. kanewai on 21 May 2012 |
Go for it! I can't find enough time for all my own languages, so I am going to live vicariously through you. :D Kerrie on 21 May 2012 |
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The more I learn, the more I realize just how far I have to go.
I thought that I'd be able to put my French books aside in December 2011 and just cruise: I could listen to podcasts and radio shows, and read native language books, and watch movies, and learn that way. Five months on, and I think: maybe I can reach that point by the end of this Summer. Maybe. I started listening to RFI Journal en français facile again, and I finally understand enough for it to be a useful. I'll try (once more) to make it part of my morning routine. My Challenge movie this week has been La cage aux folles. I've been alternating between using English and French subtitles, and watching a lot of scenes twice. It's a great movie for this - the two leads are great actors, and the dialogue is fun. It's enjoyable to re-watch the scenes. This is the first movie of the Challenge where I felt this. I have ambiguous feelings about the movie itself. I watched it in the late 1980's, and it already felt like an artifact from a lost world. My world was Act Up and Queer Nation and defying authority; I could not relate to Laurent (the spineless son), much less to two aging queens in St. Tropez and their sassy black houseboy. Twenty years on, and I still think that the son needed a good slap, and should have been sent to his room and had his allowance cut off for even suggesting that his fathers act straight for a night. But then there wouldn't have been a movie, and my politics have mellowed enough that I can enjoy the great acting and rapport between the two leads & mostly ignore the nonsense. Meanwhile ... in literature land ... the Bovaries have moved to Yonville (which seems like a French version of Green Acres), Madame Bovary just got knocked up, and she has met a flirty clerk who also dreams of Paris. The plot is finally picking up some speed. On deck, I ordered http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0340968745/ref=oh_deta ils_o01_s00_i00 - French Grammar in Context for when I finish Assimil. And I'm moving quickly on the Japanese - I'll be doing a lot of commuting this week, and it's nice to have an audio course to do for the drive. It'll be a challenge keeping it up once my schedule settles down and I go back to biking ... hopefully I'll be over the first language-learning hump by then. kanewai on 22 May 2012 |
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French
I'm up to Lesson 54 of Using French, and Assimil has finally gotten real. As in: the lessons are now interesting in their own right, as opposed to just being interesting for a language book. The highlight this last week was the selection from Les Misérables of Gavroche at the barricade. Too bad there's only 14 lessons to go; I would be willing to continue with an Assimil 3! I'm about 1/3 of the way through Madame Bovary for the Challenge. She's not very sympa at this point of the novel - she knocks her crying baby away from her, and then marvels at how ugly the kid is. C'est une chose étranbe, pensait Emma, comme c'est enfant est laide! I can see why the book was scandalous in it's day. And I can't imagine this scene will make it into the coming movie - Hollywood doesn't like such things. I also imported some Anki decks. I've tried Anki before, but felt that I was spending more time getting creating my decks than actually studying, and I always fetl behind. But the main thing slowing down my reading is vocabulary, so it's time to work on that. I imported three: 1000 Most Common French Words, 5700 Common French Words, and Intermediate French. The first two have been too simple so far: I keep getting real basic words, like tu and vous and qui. The third has a lot of words with similar definitions (two words in a row for "to resign," two for "to annoy," and four or five versions of "to carry" or "to bring back." (rapporter, apporter, emporter, amener, and ramener all showed up at once, and I couldn't keep any of 'em straight). Kindle Touch My Kindle Touch also arrived this weekend, and it's such a pleasure to use - it's a big jump up from the previous kindle I had. I like that I can adjust the fonts more freely, I like that it's lighter, and it is much easier to look up words by touch than by toggling. Other positives: It seems to handle the French/English dictionary better (it doesn't get as confused by contrations), and it's easier to organize your books into 'collections'. I haven't used the x-ray feature yet, or the "share" feature where you can highlight text and send it over the net. The only real con is that the dictionary feature gives you definitions in a big box that blocks out whole paragraphs. The old kindle would give a brief definition at the bottom of the page, so you could still see how the word looked in context. Overall, my reading speed has definitely increased - mostly from not having to toggle, and being able to manipulate the text so that I can get more paragraphs on one page. This comes with a free month of Amazon Prime. From what I can tell, it's not worth the price. You can 'borrow' one book a month, but most of the books I found were kinda trashy serial-killer mysteries, bodice-ripping romances, teen-vampire dramas, and other genre novels. The few books I found that I would want to borrow were selling for $1.99. I can't figure why I'd pay $79 a year to get 12 free $2 books. Except ... Harry Potter in translation is coming out mid-June on Prime. That might make it worthwhile! I'll hold out. Japanese I ended up carpooling a lot this weekend, so I had less alone-time in my car to listen to my recordings. Still, I'm past the point of no-return: I've invested enough hours into Japanese that I'd hate to drop it. Not that I'm that far along: 8 lessons of Pimsleur and the first two hours of Michel Thomas (I listen to the MT lessons multiple times). Pimsleur is definitley the more frustating of the two; at times I feel like I'm just mimicing sounds and syllables without any real understanding of why. So for example, I know when to say ikagasamade without really knowing why I'm saying it. The MT teacher (Helen Gilhooly?) has a pleasant voice and manner, so it's been more enjoyable. I'm also making more connections with the MT tapes. Some of the grammar constructions remind me of Hawaiian "pidgen," and I've seen similar word order and counting methods in Micronesian. I am secretly hoping that I'll have an easier time with Japanese than mainland Americans, and that I might even be able to read manga ... but we'll see. For now, I'll finish the courses that I have, and then maybe move on to Assimil. kanewai on 29 May 2012 |
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French
My reading skills are starting to advance much faster than my speaking and listening skills. I was doing a good job of keeping them in synch, but looking ahead I see lots of time to read, and not much time to practice speaking. I'm fine with that for now. It's now taking me two to three days to finish each lesson in Using French. They've introduced Balzac, and he was a mess. I never knew. His writing also seems easier to read then Flaubert's, so I might read something of his next. The Super Challenge I'm now over 50% of the way through Madame Bovary, and it has gotten good! The first half was well written, and their were some beautiful passages. There was only one chapter in the first book that really jumped out (when the Bovary's are invited to a rich-man's ball). I admired the book more than loved it - I couldn't lose myself in the story. I'm on Chapter 13 of Book 2, and the last four or five chapters have each been riveting. It's finally become a 'real' novel for me, where I rush home to read it to find out what happens next, as opposed to just reading it as a learning exercise. I also started a French manga, http://editions.louvre.fr/en/titles/comics-childrens-bo oks/the-louvre-and-comics/rohan-au-louvre.html - Rohan au Louvre . It's really fun; I might look into finding more of La nouvelle manga. I already ordered Les Aventures de Tintin: Le Lotus bleu and Astérix le Gaulouis - I'll have plenty to balance out the more serious literature. I'm also done with my online shopping for the month! Japanese I'm half-way through both Pimsleur 1 and Michel Thomas Foundation. These methods are great for commuting, and they balance each other out nicely. I was doing these with my co-worker, but I think he's dropped out. I haven't asked, but I got a blank look when I asked him if he wanted coffee this morning. This isn't one of my main target languages ... yet ... but I'm already wondering if it would be possible to read manga by next summer ... kanewai on 07 June 2012 |
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Brain Freeze. It went like this:
Pimsleur: Tell your friend you want to go shopping. Brain: zzzzzz Me: Hey! Wake up! Pimsleur: Kyo wa kaimono ga shitai n desu ga? Brain: Kyo wa ... something. Me: Oh come one, try a bit harder. Pimsleur: Ask her if she has any money. Brain: Why are we doing this again? Me: Just focus. Pimsleur: okane o motte imasu ka? Brain: I knew that. Pimsleur: Ask her if she has fifty one dollars. Brain: No. Me: What? Stomach: I'm hungry. Let's eat. Brain: I don't care. Me: Fine. (hits pause, and ends the pain) I think I'm going to follow the expert's advice, and focus on one language at a time. I was just flirting with Japanese, but I'm not going to realistically get anywhere with 20" a day, and I don't want to cut into my French study time. So I'm regrouping, and moving back to Plan A, and my first log: Learn French by any and all means. I'm still going to follow a lot of the Romantics logs, I'm not sure I'm getting the whole point of the TAC Challenge. kanewai on 13 June 2012 |
What do you mean? I think the point of the TAC is total annihilation. Of whatever you choose to annihilate. For you, that's French. I have a lot of respect for you guys who focus on only one language at a time. Sometimes I think it would be cool for a single language to hold my focus until I'm happy with my level in it. =) But alas, I have five I can't put down. Which is both annoying and rewarding at the same time. But I'm still doing my best to annihilate them. :D Kerrie on 13 June 2012 |
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I don't think a single language can hold my focus either - I've toyed with half a dozen
this year alone! It's nice to put French somewhat aside sometimes, and just maintain while I play with others. Then I'm more energized to come back and immerse myself when I think I'm at the point where I can level up. I've been doing an exercise where I write down every word I'm unsure of in a text ... and I had 70 alone for the last chapter in my book. It's been a good wake up call as to just how much vocabulary we would need to function at an advanced level, and how far I still have to go. This is partially what's made me decide to focus again, at least for now! kanewai on 13 June 2012 |
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Have you gotten to watch Le Diner De Cons yet? I saw in the "Super..Registration" thread that you were looking to watch it. Kind of a coincidence since I'd never heard of it before, but read a favorable online review and decided to pop it in my Amazon shopping cart yesterday. I'm looking forward to seeing an original French comedy.
Sunja on 13 June 2012 |
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2012 Year in Review
I kept separate French and Spanish logs for most of the year, and lost track of all but four or five of the rest of the TAC Romantics. What I said at the beginning of the year: For 2012, I want to bump up my French and Spanish from an intermediate level to a solid B-1 or B-2. I want to reach a level where I can read novels comfortably, understand movies, and maintain the languages without strain. I'm also planning some detours into Italian and maybe Catalan along the way ... It would be beyond fantastic if I were able to read modern Spanish literature at the end of the year. Silly me. Silly little one-year younger with such high hopes and ambitions me. But last January was a simpler, more innocent time. In reality, after lots and lots of study, Iâd give myself a tenuous B-1 for French, and a weak A-2 for Spanish. I can read easy French novels but need help with literature, I canât understand most movies, and I can handle simple one-on-one conversations. It doesnât feel like much. Then I remind myself of this chart I did for Romance languages on how long the professionals estimate that it takes to reach each level: A-2 FSI: 180 hours of class time, plus 150 hours homework ILA France: 160 hours of class time, plus 100 hours homework B-1 FSI: 350 hours of class time, plus 300 hours homework ILA France: 310 hours of class time, plus 150 hours homework B-2 FSI: 500 hours of class time, plus 375 hours homework ILA France: 690 hours of class time, plus 200 hours homework My very rough estimate is that I have spent 150 hours on Assimil French, 50 hours on Using French, 50 hours on Pimsleur, 150 hours on FSI, 50 hours on Michel Thomas, and 20 hours with a French grammar book ⊠for a total of 470 hours. Add in a trip to Tunisia and Paris, and tons of reading with the Super Challenge, and suddenly âalmost B-1â sounds just about right. I didnât kick my Spanish into gear until July, but since then Iâve finished Pimsleur II and III, three levels of Michel Thomas, the passive wave and half the active wave of Assimil, 26 lessons of FSI, and a trip to Guatemala. I didnât notice any interference at all between French and Spanish! However, I found that I can only do one language actively or intensely at a time. I did a lot of flirting this year, too â more than ever before. Italian: 12 weeks, Pimsleur 1 & 2, Michel Thomas Total, FSI FAST 1-6, 7 days in Rome Catalan: Four weeks; Chapters 1-5 of Teach Yourself Catalan Japanese: Four weeks, Michel Thomas and half of Pimsleur 1. MaghrĂ©bin Arabic: 7 weeks; Chapters 1-24 of MĂ©thode d'arabe maghrĂ©bin moderne Ancient Greek: 3 weeks so far, as part of the Assimil Experiment. [/hr] I think a realistic goal for me is to try and âlevel upâ in my target languages each year. I used to think I wanted to be âfluentâ in seven languages by the age of fifty. Then I lowered it down to five. Now Iâm thinking that French, Spanish, and English might be enough! Iâll still flirt with a lot of languages, of course! If the Assimil Experiment is a success I can see trying one new language a year, just for the experience. But as I donât retain much of the languages I flirt with (my Italian disappeared within days of leaving Rome) I donât think Iâll worry so much about reaching a high level of fluency in them. Goals for 2013 Finish French Grammar in Context Finish FSI French Finish the Super Challenge! Finish Spanish with Ease Start Perfectionnement Espagnol Continue with FSI Spanish Volume 3 Finish Le Grec Ancien And who knows what will come after ... kanewai on 05 December 2012 |
You almost got me arrested today. I was reading this on my iPhone in the train, and I started laughing so hard that I cought the attention of everyone around me. Now middle aged female buraucrats are not supposed to be laughing out loud on the train in Norway. Only drunks and lunatics do that. I had to move into another wagon to save face. But I so recognized thouse thoughts. I am also always overambitious and think I can do much more than I can do. On the good side you have acheived quite a lot! Solfrid Cristin on 05 December 2012 |
I very much feel your pain! garyb on 05 December 2012 |
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More Romantic thoughts ...
- I said I didn't notice any interference, but I did notice that when I studied Italian it seemed to replace my Spanish completely. When I went back to Spanish I picked up where I left off, but my Italian disappeared. I never got them confused, but I couldn't maintain both at the same time. - Italian, Portuguese, and Catalan are still on my 'short term' list. Meaning, they're languages I would study for three to six months if I had a trip coming up, but I'm not aiming for long-term study. Arabic also, unless someone comes out with a brilliant new or revised course. - It's great using French as a base for other, more exotic languages (Greek and Arabic). I find I don't translate the text so much as internalize it for what it is. Even doing Spanish with a French base (Michel Thomas) was a pretty amazing mental experience. - For French, the hard parts came early, with the pronunciation and the pronouns. The move from A2 to B1 took a lot of work, but wasn't as hard. Spanish, however, seems to have started more easily, and gotten hard later. There seem to be more and more phrases in Spanish that don't translate logically into English. kanewai on 07 December 2012 |
Cristina, you just made me scare my kids. They are not used to me bursting out in snorts of laughter. Kerrie on 10 December 2012 |
Just passing it forward :-) Solfrid Cristin on 10 December 2012 |
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PAX 2013!
Over the past two years I've spent roughly 12 months focusing intensively on French, and 9 months on Spanish. This year will be less intense. I'll keep moving forward in both, but at a more relaxed and manageable pace. I hope. Right now I envision alternating them: a few weeks with one, a few with another. For French this will be easy; I know enough that I can maintain through passive reading. For Spanish this will be more challenging, as I'm not at the point where I can enjoy native literature yet. French Finish French Grammar in Context (Margaret Judd, 2008) Finish French Basic Course, Volume II (Foreign Service Institute) (Lesson 19-24 remaining) Super Challenge Films: 65 to go Super Challenge Books: Finish Les Misérables, Victor Hugo (Three books to go) Start A la recherche du temps perdu, Marcel Proust (1913-1927) La condition humaine, André Malraux (1933) Vendredi ou les limbes du pacifique, Michel Tournier (1967) Mémoires d'Hadrien, Marguerite Yourcenar (1951) Notre Dame des Fleurs, Jean Genet (1944) Spanish I have a lot more traditional coursework to do for Spanish ... Finish active wave of Assimil Spanish FSI Spanish Basic, Volume 3 (Lessons 31-45). Maybe start Vol. 4 Assimil Perfectionnement Espagnol (French Base) Ancient Greek Finish Assimil Le Grec ancien And if I like it, continue with one of the books that walks you through Homer. kanewai on 18 December 2012 |
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I am so glad you're on my team again this year. :) Isn't it crazy to see how far you've come from a year ago? Did you think, a year ago, that you'd have read 3,800 pages in French? Kerrie on 18 December 2012 |
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I spent last weekend with friends in a North Shore beach house, but tried to carve out time each morning for my studies. And I had the same conversation a lot of you have had:
- You must have a talent for languages. - No. It's more about commitment. I failed my University French course. - No. You're a natural. I tried. I can't do it. - What did you try? - Pimsleur Japanese from the library. - Um, that's only eight lessons ... it's not enough ... - No, I just don't have the aptitude for it. Otherwise, it's been a slow season for language learning. I'll be in London next week. It'll be cold (for me) - maybe I can find a pub with a fire to curl up in front of with my language books ... Le Grec ancien This is getting frustrating. I listened to a couple old lessons this morning, and understood almost nothing. The Assimil method is just not sticking. I think I might need to spend the next week doing some old fashioned studying - writing out conjugations and declensions, and then memorizing them. I'm ready for gods and monsters and epic cycles of murder and revenge, not school boy stories about Kattalus and Aristippus and nude oil wrestling. Though ... the last part wasn't too bad. French Finished 403 pages of Germinal, but stilll have 173 to go. This is an amazing book, but it is taking forever to read. The fourth part centered around a riot by the striking miners. It was an intense section, as the action switched back and forth between the bourgeoise trying to keep to their social schedule of lunches and dinners, and the workers rampaging through the countryside. It was realistic, almost like a news account. At the riot's peak some women take revenge on a rapist, and the scene is so graphic that the English translator just skips over it. Funny that the French could write about things in 1885 that modern translators won't touch. I want to read more Zola; I just wish his books weren't so damn long! I've had less luck with my flics this past week. In http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaoYTgbUmdc - Angel-A (Luc Besson, 2007) a suicidal con-artist is rescued by a sassy, chain-smoking, sexually insatiable angel. It was fun for twenty minutes, then the characters became tiring. It ended with a sappy message about loving yourself that felt like it belonged in a different movie. Like maybe My Little Pony. François Truffaut's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBen19EjYAc - La nuit Américaine (Day for Night) was supposed to be his "love letter to the movies." I was bored - I felt like I'd seen all this before. And then there was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPgGCG4L-r0 - Journal d'un curé de campagne (Diary of a Country Priest,Robert Bresson, 1951). A sad priest is assigned to a vicious little village. He swoons a lot, and says things in voice-over like "No one knows how much I suffer" and "Why? Why do they torment me like this?" Meanwhile, little old ladies poison his tea for fun. Everyone should watch this. It is the Frenchiest thing I have ever seen. I am convinced this is the direct inspiration for Henri le chat noir (the third most influential cat of 2012). Seriously. Watch the preview, then watch Henri in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egtvaWzIh7o - The Worst Noël . Finally: squee! Guess what I have tickets for this Thursday! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2EM3sIvBxY - Les Misérables (Official London Trailer 2012). I read the book in English in high school, I've read 2/5 of it so far in French, and I know the soundtrack by heart, but I've never seen it on stage. It's time! I might put a pause on Germinal to see how far I can get in the third book of Les Mis before Thursday. Reading these books in French is a much more intense and immersive experience than reading them in English. A lot of this is due to the fact that I have to slow down, and really work my way through the books rather than speeding through them. Spanish Still on hold. I haven't had the time or energy to study three at once. kanewai on 24 December 2012 |
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Hope you have a good time in London braddah! Last time I was in the West End, I watched "Phantom of the Opera" at Her Majesty's Theatre, and it was one of the most memorable experiences of my life. I've never seen "Les Mis" but it's definitely on my bucket list.
I'll be spending Christmas on Oahu this year, and am just about to head out and treat the misses and I to some ono spicy ahi poke and shave ice, then check out the gingerbread house in town to get into the festive spirit. I'm missing the snow and hot GlĂŒhwein of course, but have substituted a tinstle-bedecked pineapple for the traditional baubled Weihnachtsbaum. ;) Mele kalikimaka and safe journey! Teango on 25 December 2012 |
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I am sure you will have a great time! I saw les Miserables in New York in the late 80ies, and just loved it, I
think the only musical which has made more of an impression on me was Phantom of the Opera. I love your reviews of the films you have seen and the books you have read by the way! Solfrid Cristin on 25 December 2012 |
Brah, your grinds are gonna be so much mo' ono than mine this Christmas! Though the proper way to do it, island style, is to take the missus surfing tomorrow morning. Mele Kalikimaka! And one more for the road: I stayed up to finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttPhGfyyWQ4 - 8 femmes tonight. It's a musical murder mystery set in a country house on Christmas Eve. It's campy and candy colored, like a French John Waters. And if that's not enough: with Danielle Darrieux, Catherine Deneuve, Isabelle Huppert, and Fanny Ardant. I've seen it before, and I'll see it again ... this is becoming one of my favorite "Christmas movies." kanewai on 25 December 2012 |
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"Kanewai and the Romantics" - did anyone ever tell you this would make an excellent name for an 80s group, brah? I'm feeling a wave of nostalia already. :)
Teango on 31 December 2012 |
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I just made a deal with a guy at a NYE party - I'll teach him to surf, he'll help me with
French conversation. 2013 will show if this is a real thing, or if it was just the champagne talking. kanewai on 01 January 2013 |
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Interesting blog. =) Hope the new year has delightful surprises in store for your Spanish (and your others, as well). Good luck to you and the rest of team Pax!
Rout on 03 January 2013 |
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French
I finally started Les Misérables, Book 3: Marius, and was almost immediately frustrated by more of Hugo's tangents. There was one on gamin (which the English translates as "Street Arab," which makes me cringe each time), and one on royalist salons in the age of Napoleon, and it was like being cornered by a long-winded professor and I just wanted to scream, shut up with the tangents and get back to the story! Seriously, the first 15% of the book was all tangents, or about 45 pages. But now we're back to the story, and I've (almost) forgiven Hugo. I thought I might be impatient with the novel after seeing the musical (which was fantastic!), but there is so much more in the book that this hasn't been the case at all. In the musical, Marius is a student revolutionary, but there's nothing really special about his story. Well, in the book we learn about his royalist grandfather's hatred of Napoleon, his mother's affair with a soldier, his youth in the grandfather's salon, and his eventual discovery of his father's true identity. All in about 50 pages - the plot flies along fast when Hugo finally gets to it! And none of this, at all, makes the cut for the movie or musical! I also find that my reading comprehension has leveled up a notch. I still have a long way to go, but it's nice to feel some progress. I also started Harry Potter et la coupe de feu. I'll alternate, a couple chapters in Paris, a couple chapters at Hogwarts. Ancient Greek Greek was supposed to be an 'extra' language for me. I didn't have time to commit, but I thought I'd casually make my way through Assimil as part of the A. Challenge. That plan failed. The language is far too complicated to learn in an easy 30 minutes a day. I took time out to spend two long days reviewing past chapters, I made some declension charts to study, and then I finally picked up an old 1950's Teach Yourself book and did a couple chapters. I thought the contrast between the old-fashioned and modern methods was fascinating: 1950's TY: Thoroughly master grammatical explanations. Never be slack about looking things up. Use the cross references. If any piece of Greek seizes your fancy, learn it by heart. Work slowly, never passing on to new work until you have mastered the old. This will be hard. You will love it. Modern Online Advice: Greek is hard. Only five percent of auto-didacts succeed. Ergo: you will probably fail. Don't try to teach yourself. Take a class. 2010's Assimil: Don't learn anything by heart. Use the literal translation to help you. Listen closely to the recordings. Each lesson should take thirty minutes a day. Don't rush. I like Assimil, but I had to go back and do some good old-fashioned un-Assimil-like memorizing of texts ... I needed a more solid base in order to go on. I was too lost. Maybe we're too quick to dismiss some of the older methods. Although I also feel that my work so far with Assimil has made it easier to use the older books. Now, check out the dialogues! Teach Yourself Greek (1952), Chapter V Daphne began the work at once, but what should she see but a bull with the face of a misanthropic general! The image of the animal frightened the good girl so much that she couldn't utter a word, but held up her hymnal mid-air, which the animal swallowed thinking it was a gift of food. or this: Hector ... used to ride a cycle round the cenotaph, studying arithmetic and biology aloud and declaring that he was a mystical methodist. Then he tried cosmetics and strategy, contracted ophtalmia and chronic hydrophobia and turned a diabolical heliotrope color. Chapter 6 jumps right into using quotes from Aristotle, Plato, and St. John. kanewai on 05 January 2013 |
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Your posts have the strange quality of giving me the oddest cravings, and right now you are making me lust
after Ancient Greek. When I have not even mastered the alphabet of Modern Greek. I do not know how you do it. Solfrid Cristin on 05 January 2013 |
folks like you have. Ancient Greek As per Ancient Greek, Solfrid, my advice is: Don't do it! Erase that thought out of your mind this very instant! Or else be prepared for it to become your main focus ... it is a greedy little language that will push all your other languages aside and demand all of your mental energy. I added it as a side project, something fun I could do for the Assimil Experiment that wouldn't take too much time away from my focus languages. Ha ha ha. The learning curve at the beginning is very steep, and instead of being a side project it is becoming my unintended focus. I'm hoping I can reach a plateau soon. Even though I feel a bit overwhelmed, this still feels doable. Working with grammar books alongside Assimil has helped a lot. And I need to remind myself that my goal is not to be able to read Greek fluently. My goal now is to be able to read the Iliad and Odyssey, and the Athenian dramas, in parallel text. That alone would be amazing. French Les MisĂ©rables, T3: Marius - OMG Hugo is such a wind bag sometimes. I want to reach back through the centuries, shake him, and demand that he get on with the story! 'Cause it's a great story. I've reached the section on "The Friends of the ABC" - the group of students that meet in the back of a coffee shop and talk themselves into staging a revolution. This was by far my favorite section when I read the book in High School. I really wanted to be in Paris fighting and drinking and arguing philosophy all night, not stuck in my little midwestern farm town. Harry Potter et la coupe de feu - I'm using the dictionary less and less for HP! FSI - Up to Lesson 19.4. The focus is on the subjunctive. I skim the lesson, attempt it on tape, skim it again, and do the tape again. It takes a week to finish each section, but it's been valuable. Spanish I was planning on doing Spanish for the upcoming 6W Challenge, but I don't have time to do intensive Spanish and still struggle with Greek. I want to do something to keep my Spanish alive, and it has to be something easy, at least for the immediate future. I can't quite read literature yet, even with the Kindle dictionary, and Assimil's active wave requires more time and energy than I have. So I just ordered two parallel text books: Alicia en el PaĂs de las Maravillas and Aura, a novella by Carlos Fuentes. I'm hoping that these will be fun, and enough to keep my Spanish from completely rusting away. kanewai on 11 January 2013 |
Your writing's so vivid; I'm enjoying your log, as ever. songlines on 12 January 2013 |
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ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ
(Ancient Greek) Taking time out to do a few chapters in my grammar books really helped; the last week has gone much more smoothly. There's still an overwhelming amount of information - the last revision chapter alone was ten pages of small print. I started the active wave, though I think I'm going to make it a "medium-active" wave. I'll do what I can, and see what sticks. I need to remind myself that I'm not in a race, that I'm not going to be tested, and that unless a portal opens I'm not going to need to speak it. I'm ok with spending a couple years with parallel texts, and Ancient Greek seems to have more of them than most languages. There's also too many new ideas: a future infinitive, an aorist past tense that is neither perfect nor imperfect, a middle voice, and reflexive and non reflexive pronouns. I'm sure this all made sense to Homer, and that it will make sense to me one day also. My current debate is whether to use Greek for the Feb 6-Week Challenge. It would really help to push me through to a more stable level, though it would go against the spirit of the Assimil Experiment. French Les MisĂ©rables, T3: Marius - I'm 65% of the way through T3, and none of the events so far made the cut for the musical! I still get nervous when Hugo starts on a tangent. I don't know if it will last for three pages or one hundred. It's still a roller coaster. One day I think, I'm half-way through the whole novel! And the next I think, oh shit, I still have half to go? And then either the plot will pick up, or the writing will become downright poetic. Here are four examples (translations below): on the lower depths of society: Elles sont brutalement voraes, c'est-Ă -dire fĂ©roces, non Ă la façon du tyran, mais Ă la façon du tigre. De la souffrance ces larves passent au crime ... Ce qui rampe dans le troisiĂšme dessous social, ce n'est plus la rĂ©clamation Ă©touffĂ©e de l'absolu; c'est la protestation de la matiĂšre. L'homee y devienh dragon. Avoir faim, avoir soif, c'est le point de dĂ©part; ĂȘtre Satan, c'est le point d'arrivĂ©e. on the 'social peril' of darkness: HumanitĂ©, c'est identitĂ©. Tous les hommes sont la mĂȘme argile. Nulle difference, ici- bas du moins, dans le prĂ©destination. MĂȘme ombre avant, mĂȘme chair pendant, mĂȘme cendre aprĂšs. Mais l'ignorance mĂȘlĂ©e Ă la pĂąte humaine la noircit. Cette incurable noirceur gagne le dedans de l'homme et y devient le Mal. Marius's thoughts on meeting Eponine and her sister: Tristes crĂ©atures ... Ămes Ă©closes hier, fanĂ©es aujourd'hui, pareilles Ă ces fleurs tombĂ©es dans la rue que toutes les boues flĂ©trissent en attendant qu'une roue les Ă©crase. Marius gives Eponine 5 francs, and she gives him an earful of argot. I don't think my book's translation really captures how crude it is: Cinque francs! du laisant! un monarque! dans cette piole! c'est chenĂątre! Vous ĂȘtes un bon mion. Je vous fonce mon palpitant. Bravo les fanandels! deux jours de pivois! et de la viandemouche! et du fricotmar! on pitancera chenument! et de la bonne mouisse! Harry Potter et la coupe de feu - I didn't care for the fourth movie, but the book has been a huge jump forward in turns of style and plotting. I don't feel like I'm reading a young adult book anymore. FSI - It took me a whole week to complete Lesson 19.5. The exercises have longer sentences and much more complicated grammar. I can't do them when driving or watering the lawn ... now I need to sit down and concentrate. Siegfried - Loved it. I'll put a full review in the Super Challenge thread. French Movies - I hate most of them. What happened? Full reviews to come. Spanish I'm taking a cue from the Greek, and also doing a "medium" wave of Spanish. I'm picking up where I left off with Assimil, Lesson 60, but am not worrying about memorizing the text or getting it all perfect. I give it a few run-throughs just to keep the language fresh in my mind. I also started reading the parallel text of Alicia en el PaĂs de las Maravillas. It's gonna be slow going! I make it through about a page per day. It reminds me of where I was with Le petit prince a year ago. My original plan was to do Spanish for the 6WC. Now I don't know. Greek is hard enough, and it's hard to think actively. Italian and Arabic Ha ha, psyche! Three is enough. But I can't help myself, and keep looking ahead to next year. If I can get my Spanish to a solid B1 / early B2 by the end of the year, I can maintain with books and add another language ... rough translations: They are brutally voracious, that is to say, ferocious, not in the fashion of a tyrant, but in the fashion of a tiger. Out of suffering these larvae pass to crime ... for those who crawl in the lower depths, it is not about the constraints of the Absolute; it is about the protestation of matter. Man there becomes a dragon. To have hunger, to be thirsty, that is the point of departure; to be Satanic, that is the point of arrival. ... Humanity is identity. All men are of the same clay. There is no difference in our destinies: it is the same shadow behind, the same flesh during, the same ashes after. But ignorance mixed with the human paste darkens it. This incurable darkness conquers a man from the inside, and becomes evil. ... Sad creatures ... Souls that blossomed only yesterday, and faded today, like those flowers which fall into the street and are blackened with mud, waiting for some wheel to crush them. ... (I hate the argot translation in my book - it sounds like a Monty Python sketch - and a lot of the words aren't even in my dictionary. Anyone want to take a stab at translating the fourth quote?) kanewai on 23 January 2013 |
I got this feeling a lot when I was watching movies (as opposed to TV episodes). I found a lot more Spanish and Italian movies that I really enjoyed than I did French. I decided it would be more pleasant to pick a TV show I like and order the DVD box set. Amazon France has some decent prices on complete box sets, and I've gotten a few of them in the past few months. Of course, it depends a little on what you like to watch, but French movies felt really tedious for me. I have so much respect for you reading through the French classics like you are. I think by the end of the Super Challenge, you will have convinced me to read a lot of stuff that would not normally be on my radar. Heck, you inspired Cristina to finish Madame Bovary. :) Kerrie on 24 January 2013 |
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There's been a few great discoveries, but I think I'm going to follow your lead and move
on to tv series that I like, or that I've missed. I never saw Battlestar Galactica, and I think that might be a fun series in French. And I'm with you on Spanish and Italian movies ... I love both. Though maybe if I tried to watch 100 I'd run out of ideas too! kanewai on 24 January 2013 |
I'm glad to hear you liked Siegfried, and I'm looking forward to your review. I sort of have a love/hate relationship with French movies. The French are amazingly good at http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_et_Essai - a certain kind of film , but my limit for actually enjoying those is about 2 per year. So I really don't fit in down at the Alliance française on movie night, because essentially the only movies we agree on are Amélie and Intouchables. For some people, French is a gateway to a rich artistic experience they can't get in English, and I think that's a great thing. But French bookstores and libraries in the US focus very heavily on this niche, and so they tend to ignore a lot of great French pop culture. And well, I often just want some reasonably intelligent and amusing pop culture. emk on 24 January 2013 |
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My struggle now is, how do I balance three languages? I managed a year ago, but I was
using lots of audio courses that I could do while jogging (well, walking), working in the yard, etc. Now I'm at a stage where everything I have requires me to sit down and focus. My new plan is to devote one hour per day to language, in three 15" chunks with a 5" rest in between each segment. I probably won't try all three in one day; rather it'll be two segments of one language, and one segment of another. I got the fifteen-minute idea from another post on Richard Burton. I think this will help keep me focused. I'm good at day-dreaming, and one session can drift on and on. If I only have fifteen minutes I won't drift. It'll also stop me from burning out, or feeling too overwhelmed. Last night went like this: 15" - Assimil Le Grec, passive lesson 59. Read the dialogues. 5" - Go outside and feed the chickens. 15" - Assimil lesson 59 - listen and repeat, lesson 59. 5" - break 15" - FSI French, start the last tape of lesson 19. I think this approach might be sustainable. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ (Ancient Greek) On Assimil Lesson 59 passive, 9 active. So far the active wave has been easy. This week might be more of a challenge. I'm copying out the dialogues and exercises, but only really focusing on getting the exercises right. I think a consensus is developing over on the experiment thread that Assimil alone is not enough for the harder languages. I haven't used my Teach Yourself or Pharr in a couple weeks, but I have them standing by in case I get stuck again. French My kindle paperwhite arrived, and I love it. Seriously. It's love. The screen is lit, so it is much easier to read in dim light, or in the mornings. And somehow my French dictionary is now in French. This hasn't been a problem, and being able to use a native language dictionary feels like a huge step forward. Spanish I rented Battlestar Galactica. Netflix said it was in French, but netflix lied. There are, however, Spanish subtitles. I don't really like dubbing, and find that it's kind of fun to have the English on while reading Spanish. It's surprisingly helpful, at least at this stage. I'm also going to start rotating more Spanish language movies in with my French ones. I thought about making a half-challenge out of it, but I'm only barely ahead of the curve with my French. I don't think I can pull off both. I'm eyeing Assimil's Perfectionnement Espanol. Has anyone used it? I know the English-based version got panned, but how about the French? kanewai on 01 February 2013 |
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I haven't used the French version, but I have gone through a good half of the English one, and honestly, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Some of the translations are a bit.. off but if you already have a good grounding in Spanish (which you do) they really shouldn't present any problems at all.
I would say the course is very Assimil! If you can live with the randomness, there's simply nothing else like it on the market. Definitely not a course you want to miss out on. dbag on 01 February 2013 |
May I ask what French films are you watching? Perhaps you are just looking in the wrong places. Please don't dismiss them so easily :) What kind of film are you looking for war epic, adventure, action, bio-pic ? I'm sure I could help. You could perhaps direct me to some good Spanish films as I often finding them lacking in discretion....
I think while French may have the reputation for Un Auteur type film, the reality is that it is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_France - third biggest film industry in the world. There is a lot of commercial fluff. The French films we see in the anglophone independent cinema are often the most commercial films. Take Intouchables for example which is the second largest grossing film in France ever, it's hardly an auteur film which it seems you may be suggesting (though I'm not sure if that's what you're suggesting). I think the difference is that an auteur film can play alongside blockbuster films here in France at the same cinema. Case in point Alain Resnais's 'Vous n'avez rien encore vu' or Sautet's recent posthumously released film. French film maybe not so black and white ? Adrean on 02 February 2013 |
You can see what I've watched in all three languages http://www.languagechallenge.surrealix.com/participant.php?u sername=KerrieLangGeek - on my Super Challenge page on Twitter I'm sure there are lots of good French films, I just have not taken the time to find them. Once my French is a little better, I think I will enjoy them more. :) I have to say, though, I think it is very beneficial to find something you really like. I'm not a Buffy fan, but there's tons of stuff out there. I'm just concerned with finding something I enjoy watching. :D I have TONS of respect for the way Kanewai is doing the Super Challenge, reading the classics and finding good French cinema. His French is more advanced than mine, and I'm sure that makes a difference. But his style and interests are far different from mine. :) Kerrie on 02 February 2013 |
Is the Paperwhite that much better than the older versions? I have one of the little ones - I think the same size as the Paperwhite, but it's not touchscreen. Does the screen lighting make that much of a difference? I've been debating whether or not to invest in getting one. The only problem being we have so many Kindles in my house, it's ridiculous. :) Kerrie on 04 February 2013 |
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The touch screen is what I really like - you can touch an unknown word, and the English
definition will pop up. It's made reading a lot easier. I used to have the one with a kepypad and a toggle switch, but kindles with touch screens are a lot easier. The lighted screen is just an added benefit. Adrean - I link to the French films and books on justpaste.it (link on left). I'm not dismissing all French movies off hand, but I've watched more boring or just plain bad films than good ones this past year - and I've been watching a lot. A lot of the ones I disliked had an interesting plot that they couldn't maintain past the first ten minutes, so that you had an hour (or two) of filler while you waited for the final act. Others were interchangeable action flicks and violent stories about violent men. My full list from 2012: Favorites La rĂšgle du jeu (The Rules of the Game; Jean Renoir, 1939) French Cancan (Jean Renoir, 1954) Ă bout de souffle (Breathless; Jean-Luc Godard, 1960) Plein soleil (Purple Noon; RenĂ© Clement, 1960) Le dĂźner de cons (Francis Veber, 1998) 8 femmes (François Ozon, 2002) Le Fil (Mehdi Ben Attia, 2009) Incendies (Denis Villeneuve, 2010) Carlos (Olivier Assayas, 2010) Polisse (MaĂŻwenn Le Besco, 2011) Le Havre (Aki Kaurismaki, 2011) Good Sous les toits de Paris (Under the Roofs of Paris; RenĂ© Clair, 1930) PĂ©pĂ© le Moko (Julien Duivier, 1937) Jeux interdits (Forbidden Games; RenĂ© ClĂ©ment, 1952) Les quatre cents coups (François Truffaut, 1959) L'Histoire d'AdĂšle H. (François Truffaut, 1975) La cage aux folles (Edouard Molinaro, 1978) L'enfant (Jean-Pierre Dardenne, Luc Dardenne, 2005) Lunch with Madame Murat (Mary Moody, 2007) SĂ©raphine (Martin Provost, 2008) Le silence de Lorna (Jean-Pierre Dardenne, Luc Dardenne, 2008) Coco avant Chanel (Anne Fontaine, 2009) Le hĂ©risson (The Hedgehog; Mona Achache, 2009) Les adieux Ă la reine (BenoĂźt Jacquot, 2012) Neutral / Mixed Feelings Le jour se lĂšve (Daybreak; Marcel CarnĂ©, 1939) Guernica (Paul Ăluard, 1950) Journal d'un curĂ© de campagne (Robert Bresson, 1951) Le mystĂšre Picasso (Henri-Georges Clouzot, 1956) Le dernier mĂ©tro (The Last Metro; François Truffaut, 1980) Danton (Andrzej Wajda, 1983) Camille Claudel (Bruno Nuytten, 1988) Ma saison prĂ©fĂ©rĂ©e (AndrĂ© TĂ©chinĂ©, 1993) Le hussard sur le toit (The Horeseman on the Roof; Jean-Paul Rappeneau, 1995) La grande sĂ©duction (Jean-François Pouliot, 2003) Didnât care for: Le carrosse d'or (Jean Renoir, 1954) Princes et Princesses (Michel Ocelot, 2000) Change moi ma vie (Change My Life; Liria BĂ©gĂ©ja, 2001) Garcon stupide (Lionel Baier, 2004) Les poupĂ©es russes (CĂ©dric Klapisch, 2005) De battre mon couer s'est arrete (Jacques Audiard, 2005) La mome (Olivier Dahan, 2007) Parlez-moi de la pluie (AgnĂšs Jaoui, 2008) Paris (CĂ©dric Klapisch, 2008) Les femmes de l'ombre (Female Agents; Jean-Paul SalomĂ©, 2008) Un prophĂšte (Jacques Audiard, 2009) Une vie de chat (A Cat in Paris, Jean-Loup Felicioli, 2010) L'Illusionniste (Sylvain Chomet, 2010) Ă bout portant (Fred CavayĂ©, 2010) Les Femmes du 6Ăšme Ă©tage (Philippe le Guay, 2010) La fille du RER (AndrĂ© TĂ©chinĂ©, 2010) Nuit Blanch (FrĂ©dĂ©ric Jardin, 2011) De rouille et d'os (Jacques Audliard, 2012) Actively Hated Un hĂ©ros trĂšs discret (Jacques Audiard, 1996) Monsieur Batignole (GĂ©rard Jugnot, 2002) L'arnacoeur (Pascal Chaumeil, 2010) La tĂȘte en friche (Jean Becker, 2010) Angel-A (Luc Besson, 2007) Poupoupidou (GĂ©rald Hustache-Mathieu, 2011) kanewai on 04 February 2013 |
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Yea, I can see that being a huge benefit. Mine doesn't even have a keyboard, and it's a pain to sort all my books into folders. I have a DX (which I use for PDFs for some things if I don't have a paper copy), my little one, and each of my kids has one, too. I really don't *need* another one. But I still have some of my Christmas money left over. . . LOL Kerrie on 04 February 2013 |
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oops. deleted by mistake
kanewai on 21 February 2013 |
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Kanewai, I was so excited to see your list and I'm very impressed with the films you
got around to seeing the past year. How do you manage to choose your films? Are they suggested to you or do you find a good film and try to find similar films from the same director? I am almost agreed for all your films and the category you have placed them in - which is a good thing! Plein Soleil was a recent film I picked up by chance and I really loved it as you seemed to have done. I've also recently seen Le Havre and I'm a fan of that director though I think this was his first film outside of Finland. Les quatre cents coups is possibly my favourite film of all time and although you put it only in your good column I will forgive you. Journal d'un curé de campagne is also a favourite of mine and you may want to see Robert Bresson's other films, perhaps au hasard balthazar or Mouchette. I've also seen your list of films to see and from the list La Guerre des Boutons (1962), Masculin feminin (Jean-Luc Godard, 1966), Pierrot le fou and several others are real standouts. I would love to hear what you think of these films when you get around to watching them. There are a few films you put up in your list I've been meaning to see such as Polisse and Incendies - when I track these down I will corner you and let you know what I think. I recommend to you strongly a French radio program called Le Masque et La Plume, every second week the subject of the podcast is cinema. It may take a few episodes for you to come to grips with quirks of each of the critics but they grow on you. I can also recommend with slightly less enthusiasm the Telerama podcast for the cinema which is a 20 minute podcast each week released on Wednesday on two new films which are coming out. Adrean on 21 February 2013 |
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Thanks, Adrean! I'll definitely high-light those recommendations. I started watching
Masculin Feminin last night, and like it so far. Godard has a really smooth style, and I love how he can keep us interested while seeming to do so little. I've got other friends who say the 400 coups is their favorite film too. I liked it a lot. I've been getting most of my movies from Netflix, and basing my picks off of random top ten lists. This was pretty hit-or-miss. I just switched to using a Roku for streaming videos ... and it's become my favorite new toy. If anyone else is looking at getting one, here are the channels that I've looked at (you have to sign up for each individual channel): Netflix Streaming - $8/month. They have the best foreign movies on disc, but not so many are on streaming. Hulu Plus - $8/month. I hit the jackpot with this one - they have the entire Criterion Collection available - so that's 180 classic French movies, 149 Japanese, 58 Italian, 36 Swedish, and 13 Spanish. They also have dozens of Spanish telenovelas, although without subtitles. Not that shows like Abismo de pasiĂłn need a lot of subtitles. There are also lots of Bollywood movies and Korean dramas. Vudu- pay per view, usually $4 to $5 for a movie. They have some of the more modern titles that I can't find on the other sites. Amazon - they have a pretty weak streaming collection, but you can get a lot of modern foreign flics for a $2 to $4 rental. I don't really like the pay-per-view sites, since you only can rent a movie for 48 hours. Dish - Has Bengali, Hindi, Arabic, Tamil, Vietnamese, and Filipino channels. Nothing for me, but it's supposed to be one of the more popular channels. I was hoping that I could stream a French channel like Canal+, or a Spanish channel, but they don't have any yet. I signed up for Hulu Plus and Netflix Streaming ... so I'm ready to really take off in the Super Challenge! kanewai on 01 March 2013 |
I went to check out the site, but alas....
:-( songlines on 01 March 2013 |
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By the way, did anything ever come of the proposed French-conversation-for-surfing-lessons exchange you
mentioned over the new year? - I remembered thinking it was such a delightful idea...! songlines on 01 March 2013 |
ah, super dommage! I hope you they can get licensed in Canada soon - Hulu + really is a great resource. Having all these foreign films available is amazing. This afternoon I watched Cuba Libre, a totally stupid slapstick comedy about a group of artists in Madrid who are kicked out of their squat and end up taking over the Cuban embassy. I would have never ordered this or rented it - I don't even know if it's on dvd - and I just found it through random scrolling, but it was a great fun movie for a Saturday afternoon. kanewai on 03 March 2013 |
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So many challenges! Having streaming video has opened up lots of doors for language
study. I have a hard time following the dialogue in most movies, but find that good tv shows are much, much easier to understand. And because they're easier they're a bit more rewarding to watch, and I will watch more of them, and not just when I have the energy. 6WC (Spanish) - I'm finally hitting my groove, and was hoping that I could bust into the top 25. But I'm a couple hours behind, and I have commitments the next two nights. Next time! Super Challenge (French full, Spanish half) - 55.1 books and 52.1 movies in French (54%); 1.6 books and 5.7 films in Spanish (7%) Assimil Experiment (Greek): I'm out. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ (Ancient Greek) I had to drop Assimil - I hit a wall around Lesson 67 where nothing, and I mean nothing, was making sense. I put it aside and picked up my 1950's Teach Yourself. Now I spend fifteen minutes a day either drilling on noun declensions, or translating short pieces from the classics. This week I've been working my way through a selection from Herodotus on "How to catch a crocodile." The combination of Assimil plus a grammar book works for me. I'll eventually move back to Assimil for the recordings. I've looked around online for other options. There are a lot of recordings of professors talking about how to recite the poems and epics, but almost none of anyone actually reciting any poems or epics. French I finished two novellas: Pierre et Jean by Guy de Maupassant and La Symphonie Pastorale by AndrĂ© Gide. Gide might be my new favorite author - I've loved both stories that I've read so far. De Maupassant is good, but I get impatient with him - you pretty much know the big family secret in Pierre et Jean after a few pages, but it takes his characters fifty more to figure it out. Now I'm back to book four of Les misĂ©rables: L'idylle rue Plumet et l'Ă©popĂ©e rue Saint-Denis. The first three books I used a parallel text. So far I haven't needed it this time - another sign the Super Challenge is working! So far there's been no plot, just a discussion on the Bourbon Restoration - history I know nothing about. I've been using Wikipedia a lot to figure out what he's talking about. I've also been watching Engrenage (Spiral), a French tv series that's a mix of cop show / soap opera. So far it's excellent. It reminds me of the better HBO series, with great acting and scripts. I also ordered the first disc of Kaamelott from eBay. It's a satire based around King Arthur and his knights. The preview clips look great. Spanish I added a half-challenge in Spanish. This was kind of foolish, but I didn't want to wait until 2014 / a new Super Challenge to start. I don't know how I'm going to read a book a week ... it takes me most of the week to read a ten-page short story. I've been making it up with movies and telenovelas. I'm already four episodes into La Fea mĂĄs Bella, the Mexican version of Ugly Betty. Hulu has Spanish captioning, which helps a lot. It's a fun series, & very campy and over the top. It's a lot easier to watch a telenovela episode each night than it is to watch part of a movie. kanewai on 13 March 2013 |
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You keep being the star as far as content goes, and I am happy to hear that the Super Challenge is working
out so well for you! Solfrid Cristin on 14 March 2013 |
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I don't think I do that much studying relative to most of you all ... until I start to log it here.
ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ (Ancient Greek) I'm having the same challenges I used to have with Arabic - I spend so much time just trying to understand the text, and looking up words and grammar points, that I don't make much actual progress. Luckily there are a lot more resources out there for ancient Greek than for Arabic. I'll keep slowly pushing forward. French It's been a good week for French! *** Kaamelott arrived, and is fantastic. The episodes are only three to four minutes long, and full of rapid-fire dialogue. eBay has Region 1 DVDs from Canada with English subtitles. The episodes are fun enough that I enjoy watching them multiple times, and each time I understand a bit more of the humor. Here's two clips I found on YouTube http://youtu.be/I38N2I9Le94 - The Purifier - The Inquisitor accuses two of Arthur's knights of sorcery. This clip has unofficial subtitles done by an amateur. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R3X6KNIT0E - Le chevalier mystĂšre - Perceval de Galles is convinced that he's the legendary chevalier Provençal le Gaulois. No subtitles on this clip; I wish I could upload from my dvd because the word play is brilliant. The jokes revolve around the Welsh Percival not quite understanding the French accent, and thinking that "Provençal" and "Percival" are pronounced the same (and so he's already my favorite character). It's like a medieval French "Who's on first?" Engrenage has been great too. I found a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YQJ5CLJiCc - bandes annonces for the first season with English subtitles. Meanwhile, back in 1832, Marius is still moping after Cosette in Tome 4 of Les misĂ©rables. He's been doing this since the middle of Tome 3. I thought I was lucky that Hugo didn't start the book with one of his lengthy tangents. No. Instead, it's been Marius not eating right, not working, not even keeping his clothes clean, and just wandering the streets of Paris hoping for another glimpse of her. Enough already. It's time for the barricades to arise. Flics include http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCTaH5PhvH8 - Les diaboliques (Henri-Georges Clouzot, 1954), a Hitchcock-style noir where two teachers plot the murder of an abusive headmaster; and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDIu4mjXKTg - Le Grand Voyage (IsmaĂ«l Ferroukhi, 2004), a road trip movie about a young guy who needs to drive his thick-headed (IMHO) father from France to Mecca. Spanish I'm seven epsidoes into La Fea mĂĄs Bella. The subtitles are all in Spanish, which forces me to pay close attention, but I think I miss the details of the intrigue and cat fighting. The bigger problem: the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyIbU5V6Jn8 - theme song keeps becoming stuck in my head. Flics include http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up1bQHjKvbw - Bruc. La llegenda (Daniel Benmayor, 2010. Spain), a basic action movie set in Catalunya, http://youtu.be/wy1CSVv_i7c - Cronos (1993, MĂ©xico), an indie horror movie from Guillermo del Toro, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJzd0B1xTOs - Temporado de patos (Fernando Eimbcke, 2004. MĂ©xico), about two 13-year old boys and one long, lazy Sunday afternoon. Temporado also moved at the pace of a Sunday afternoon - it took me awhile to warm up to it, but by the end I loved it. I've been slowly working my way through http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0140265414/ref=oh_deta ils_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 - Short Stories in Spanish: New Penguin Parallel Text . And I mean slowly, even with the parallel text. It's a nice collection of stories, and the formatting is nice, so this is a good stepping stone to longer works. I listened to the first episode of Pimsleur Spanish Plus this morning. This style of drill really helps, but it's very basic for a "Level 4." The sentences are as simple as "We live in New York" and "I am in Buenos Aires on business." This is a library copy; I would be pissed if I had paid for it. I'm still debating getting the actual Spanish IV this summer, though. Otherwise, I have about nine lessons left to finish the active wave of Assimil, and I want to finish FSI Unit 36 this weekend. After that I'll take a break from active studying. My Perfectionnement Espagnol (Assimil) arrived, but I think I'll hold off for a month and just do a lot of reading and tv watching for a month. And finally, here's a section from La Symphonie Pastorale that captures what I like so much about AndrĂ© Gide's style. The pastor and his son Jacques are arguing about the education of the blind girl, Gertrude. Both are in love with her, but neither will admit it. Jacques accuses his father of choosing doctrines "ce qui me plaĂźt." The pastor thinks his son is becoming too dogmatic. Here's the pastor: Je cherche Ă travers l'Ăvangile, je cherche en vain commandement, menace, dĂ©fence ... Tout cela n'est que de saint Paul. Et c'est prĂ©cisement de ne le trouver point des paroles du Christ, qui gĂȘne Jacques. Les Ăąmes semblables Ă la sienee se croirent perdues ... - Mais, mon pĂšre, me dit-il, moi aussi je souhaite le bonheur des Ăąmes. - Non, mon ami: tu souhaites leur soumission. - C'est dans la soumission qu'est le bonheur. ... Est-ce trahir le Chirst, est-ce diminuer, profaner l'Ăvangile que d'y voir surtout une mĂ©thode pour arriver Ă la vie bienheureuse? L'Ă©tat de joie, qu'empĂȘcherent notre doute et la duretĂ© de nos coeurs, pour le chrĂ©tien est un Ă©tat obligatoire ... Le pĂȘche, c'est ce qui obscurit l'Ăąme, c'est qui s'oppose Ă sa joie. My translation: I search through the Gospels, I seach in vain for any commendment, threat, prohibition ... All of that is solely the work of St. Paul. And it is precisely that these cannot be found in the words of Christ that torments Jacques. Souls seem to him things that are lost ... - But father, he tells me, I also wish for the happiness of souls. - No, my friend, you want their submission. - Happiness is found through submission. ... Doesn't this betray Christ, and diminish and profane the Gospels, which above all provide a method to achieve a happy life? The state of joy, which clears our doubt and softens the hardness of our hearts, is for a Christian a mandatory state ... Sin is that which darkens the soul, and is opposed to its joy. kanewai on 22 March 2013 |
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Participles
I've been confused by all the talk on participles in my Greek books. It's one of those parts of speech that I only vaguely understood. Then I came across this brilliant passage in my Teach Yourself Greek (F. Kinchin Smith & T.W. Melluish, circa 1952): We don't think much of participles in English. We have only two worthy of the name. There is the present participle - 'He paused with his hand upon the door, musing a-while' - or the past participle - 'There's that cursed knocker again!' We may consider the present participle to be active, and the past participle to be passive. But we are abominably casual about the time of our participles. We have to use our own discretion in order to find out the time of an action referred to in a participle. Look at these: - (1) He went out, crying bitterly (2) Saying "Bah!" she swept out. In the first sentence we have the moist trail of evidence to prove that the exit and the tears were simultaneous. But nobody will imagine in the second that the lady's departure was accompanied by a prolonged and continuous "Bah!", like a sheep with a faulty sound-box. Yet there is nothing in the form of these two participles to suggest that their times, relative to that of the main verbs, are different. The fact is, that we English are suspicious of a lot of fancy participles, and make one or two do all the work. The Greeks, on the other hand, had stacks of them, "all carefully packed, with the name clearly written on each." What is more, they used them with fantastic precision. I wish more of my books had writing this good in them! kanewai on 31 March 2013 |
My word, that is very good. Kanewai, does the book give any biographical details for Kinchin Smith and Melluish? - Imagine having been fortunate enough to have had them as one's teachers, if that was indeed their profession! songlines on 01 April 2013 |
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I can't find much information on them. The book was originally written in 1947, Smith
did a similar book for Latin, and it appears like it was the main Teach Yourself book until the early 1980's. From the title page: F. Kinchin Smith was a Sometime Scholar of Trinity College, Oxford, and a Lecturer in Clasics, University of London Institute of Education. T.W. Melluish was a Sometime Scholar of Christ's College, Cambridge, and a Senior Classical Master of Bec School. And while I love the writing, it is one hellacious book. I could never do it as instructed (spend two years, thoroughly memorize each chapter before moving on, don't use the answer key at the back unless you absolutely have to). There's not even a dictionary ... the index in back only gives you the chapter number as reference. And there are hundreds of vocabulary words in each lesson, so you end up doing a lot of hunting and searching. This is the reason that so many students hated Greek. It's unnecessarily cruel, and probably impossible to do without locking yourself away in a dungeon, or Oxford, for a couple years. They say you will never learn if you lean to heavy on the English translation. How times have changed! I'm doing this "Assimil-style" - reading and Greek, then the English, then the Greek, until I get it, and then moving on. A perfect course would combine the passages from this course (Aesop, Herodotus, Plato, Euripides, the Old Testament, the Iliad, the story of Orpheus - fantastic stuff!), the recordings and format of Assimil, and the clearer explanations of the modern Teach Yourself. Meanwhile, here's another gem: "There is another tense in the active, called the pluperfect. We are sure of your enthusiastic support when we counsel you not to learn this horror." There are plenty of other horrors they want you to memorize completely, so it's not like they are taking it easy on the student or anything. It's only a small reprieve. kanewai on 02 April 2013 |
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Spanish Treasures
I'm still trying to find my balance in this phase of my Spanish journey. I thought it would be easy to find lots of good movies and shows, but it's been more challenging than I thought - everything seems to be cop shows or romances. I don't have cable, so I'm restricted to streaming video and internet. Still, I'm slowly finding really good material. A big frustration has been the lack of subtitles or close-captioning on the streaming videos, as I know that most of them had both in their originals! Here are my discoveries so far: Mun2 (online) - A mix of reality tv and telenovelas. No charge. La Reina del Sur (US) - only has half the season online, with subtitles. I watched a couple episodes on YouTube, and it was a great show, but the picture quality wasn't that great. I might order the season on disc once my Spanish is stronger. Escobar, El PatrĂłn del Mal (Colombia) - full season, with subtitles. Hulu (online, streaming) - Has lots of telenovelas, but most don't have subtitles or close-captioning. It's frustrating, because the originals did! $7.99 / month. La Fea mĂĄs Bella (MĂ©xico) - Close-captioned in Spanish. I watched eight episodes, but lost heart when I saw that the season has over 300 episodes. It's a fun show, but I can't imagine watching it all, especially as I know the ending. Isabel (Spain) - English sub-titles. A 13-episode mini-series about the life of Queen Isabel. The first episode was excellent. A good choice for fans of historic drama. Originally broadcast on DramaFever - see below. DramaFever (online, streaming) - A major discovery for me. Their main focus has been on Asia, but they have a new Latino section with Spanish and Argentine shows, and they say they'll have over 60 soon. They do their own subtitles (!), so this costs a bit more than other services. The first episodes are free, afterwards it's $9.99 / month. Un paso adelante (Spain) - Life at a performing arts school in Madrid. A must for fans of Fame or Glee! I watched the first episode last night, and would subscribe just for this. Mujeres Asesinas (Argentina) - A mini-series about women who kill. It gets good reviews, and is on my watch-list. Montecristo (Argentina) - Also on my watch-list. A miniseries about life during Argentina's dirty war. Netflix (streaming) - Netflix is really weak for Spanish shows, but I figure I'd put them on the list for the excellent Engrenage (France) and Ărnen: En krimi-odyssĂ© (The Eagle, Denmark). ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ (Ancient Greek) I finally hit a wall with Teach Yourself, and have moved on to the classic Homeric Greek by Pharr. I'm still amazed at how little I know after so much studying. I'm on lesson V, and Homer starts on lesson XII. This is the do-or-die point ... if I can't make it through this then maybe Greek isn't for me. French Les misĂ©rables - 1050 pages into the novel, and the barricades have finally started to rise! This is what I came for. kanewai on 09 April 2013 |
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You are so good you nearly make me feel guilty about my laziness. :-)
And I especially love your recommendations on tv series originally in the target languages. Thanks for those Cavesa on 15 April 2013 |
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Late Nights and Guilty Pleasures
Cavesa, I think I just bounce around so much that it looks like I'm doing a lot. When it comes down to actual studying I fade out after about fifteen minutes. Meanwhile, I had too many late nights last week, either watching tv or being unable to put down a book. I was pretty exhausted by the weekend ... Spanish Late Nights #1-4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9xtXi82wd0 - Isabel This is full on operatic drama at it's best! I'm hooked. Princess Isabel and Prince Alfonso are taken from their mother and forced to live in the dangerous world of the royal court (Spain, 2012). ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ (Ancient Greek) I'm up to Chapter VII in Pharr. This is a review chapter, and I'm treating it like I treated languages in college: I made flashcards, and I'm drilling with them each day. My "Assimil-like" methods weren't working at all for Greek, so now I'm going to take a more traditional approach. The Iliad starts on Chapter XII, and I want to be ready for it. French Late night #5: Les misĂ©rables T4: L'idylle rue Plumet et l'Ă©popĂ©e rue Saint-Denis - True to form, the last 100 pages of this part of the epic were epic. It takes me weeks to make it through 3/4 of each book, and then I can't put it down for the last 1/4. Late night #6: Au Bonheur des Dames (The Ladies' Paradise; Ămile Zola, 1883). I've been looking forward to reading this, one of the rare Zola novels that has a happy ending. Au Bonheur is the story of Denise, an orphan who moves to Paris and takes a job as a salesgirl in the city's first department store. I'm picturing The Devil Wears Prada in the Belle Ăpoque. I also re-watched a few more episodes of Kaamelott, the vaguely sci-fi and very post-modern Holy Motors (Leos Carax, 2012), and the fantastic noir Ascenseur pour l'Ă©chafaud (Elevator to the Gallows, Louis Malle, 1958). Ascenseur reminded me a lot of Orson Welles' Touch of Evil, which came out the same year. I made myself finish Les compagnons du crĂ©puscule T1: Le SortilĂšge du bois des brumes (François Bourgeon, 1984) just so I could log it. It's supposed to be a classic, and gets great reviews, but it's the first bd that I have actively disliked. The art was cheesy, and there was no flow to the story. It also used so much slang that I had to look up almost every three words. It wasn't fun. (almost) Late night #7: Le chat du rabbin T1: La Bar-Mitsva (Joann Sfar) arrived last night, and I had to force myself to put it down and go to bed. It's the story of a rabbi's cat in 1930's Algeria who eats the rabbi's parakeet, learns to talk, and starts causing mischief. I ordered this after watching Sfarr's Gainsbourg a few weeks ago. It's a fun story with a sly sense of humor, and so far the French is very easy to follow. 
kanewai on 16 April 2013 |
Thanks for mentioning that - I've reserved it from the library; looks like fun. It' s also been made into http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1355638/ - a film , with Fellag (Monsieur Lazhar), Mathieu Amalric, Daniel Cohen (who recently directed Comme un Chef), and Sfar herself in roles; and the cat played by François Morin (whom you probably know from Kaamelott) . Unfortunately, looking at IMDB, it seems to have been released at one cinema only in the U.S., in Dec 2012. songlines on 25 April 2013 |
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Heroic Hexameters
I've been busy this month, and so my language studies have been reduced to one active (Greek), one medium-active (French), and one orphaned (Spanish). I don't have the mental energy to actively study three at once. My original plan was to be studying French intensively this month, but Greek is hogging all my brain cells. Spanish I've watched eight out of thirteen episodes of Isabel (Spain, 2012). This has been my only link with Spanish the past couple weeks. I'm heading to Peru this summer with my family, so I need to make Spanish a priority again soon. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ (Ancient Greek) I finished Chapter XV in Pharr - and have now memorized the first six lines of the Iliad! The course asks you to memorize a line a day until you know the first fifty by heart. This feels amazing to me. It's also frakkin' hard as hell - beyond the Greek, I've had to learn strange English words like caesura, diĂ«resis, and prosody; I've learned about poetic feet, and how dactyls and spondees create the heroic hexameter. Pharr starts each chapter by having you translate sentences from prose Greek > English, and then gives you the poetic version from Homer. So, the Greek in the exercise will look like this: Which of the gods first sowed discord between the two?. In Homer the actual order is the mind bending Which, between these two, of the gods, conflict they sowed through fighting? . It's a good approach - I don't think I could ever untangle these sentences on my own. For anyone else trying this, here are some audio links from Professor Paula Dunbar at Mount Holyoke: https://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/pdebnar/Greek101/audio/ - Greek 101 https://ella.mtholyoke.edu/access/content/user/pdebnar/ Pharr_4/Audio/ - Audio 2 French I'm heading to MontrĂ©al for a few days at the end of the month, and was going to use that as an excuse to do all-French, all the time this month. I re-started FSI, and am now on Lesson 20 (out of 24). Someone once posted on HTLAL that no one ever finishes the FSI French course. I'm determined to prove them wrong. One day I will finish it. Lesson 20 is deep in the subjunctive, so it's very useful ... but Greek is really taking up too much of my free time to give this the attention it deserves. I'm half-way through Au Bonheur des Dames. It's a good story, but not as gripping as Germinal was. Parts of it are fascinating: the ruthless capitalist Mouret is building his mega-store, a world of fashion and consumerism, and destroying all the old family shops in the process. All the plot points from Mad Men and Ugly Betty and The Devil Wears Prada and even Occupy Wall Street are here - Zola did them first, a hundred years ago. Still, it feels like most of the book is describing the "new consumerism" rather than telling a story. It's more of a sociological work than an epic novel. I'm sure I miss a lot of the imagery and poetry, though - a native speaker might get more out of the writing than I do. For example, take this passage: Au-dehors, une aigre bise souffliait, les passants, surpis de ce retour d'hiver, filaient vite, en boutonnant leurs pantalots. This is what I understood: Outside, a bitter breeze blew; the pedestrians, surprised by this return of winter, filed by quickly, buttoning their jackets. A friend from Tahiti read this and said that bise was also an old-fashioned word for a 'light kiss,' and so now the breeze was a 'bitter light kiss' that blew across the pedestrians - which is a much more vivid image. This month is also the CinĂ©mathĂšque Française Film Festival at the Honolulu Museum of Art, and there have been some excellent films. The two that stood out for me: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1964624/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 - Dans la maison (François Ozon, 2012) - A student starts writing about his friend's family in an English class, and things start to get creepy. Stars Kirstin Scott Thomas - I didn't know she was a French actress. There were a lot of literary references in the movie, and I actually understood some of them. It was another benefit of the Super Challenge! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xso9ioStg4 - Tu seras mon fils (Gilles Legrand, 2011) - An intense family drama set in the Saint-Ămilion wine region. Coming up this week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOx5RQ5Ehao - ThĂ©rĂšse Desqueyroux (Claude Miller, 2012) - Audrey Tatou is "une femme en quĂȘte de libertĂ©." And the one I missed and that I hope to catch in the theater: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BENkbm28gNQ - Renoir (Gilles Bourdos, 2012) - It certainly looks like a beautiful movie. In BD land, I finished Le chat du rabbin T1: La Bar-Mitsva, which was great. Now I'm onto Siegfried T2: La Walkyrie, which so far is even better than the first book. It's a good story, and I love the art. Below, the Walkyrie bargains with something unnamed (so far) to learn Siegfried's fate:  kanewai on 13 May 2013 |
- How lovely; I adore Montreal! I'll try to finish off my series of posts on Montreal bookstores, but you may want to at least try to allow some time for visiting Librairie Michel Fortin: forum_posts.asp?TID=24268&PN=0&TPN=23 - post 182 . Also, I'm greatly enjoying Le chat du rabbin - thanks so much for your post on it! songlines on 15 May 2013 |
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Librairie Michel Fortin and PlanĂšte BD (I didn't even know that was a physical place) are both on my list! I love cities that have lots of bookstores; I always think, right or wrong, that the citizens are just a bit more civilized than in other places.
Also: I saw ThérÚse Desqueyroux last night, and it was awful. The book is a classic, and I'd like to read it one day. The movie had no life, and no energy. There went my brief winning streak with French movies. kanewai on 15 May 2013 |
I loved that series. My wife recently gave me book 1 of Le troisiÚme testament, which is Alex Alice's first book (drawn when he was still in school!). So far, it's good enough that I plan to read the other 3 books. Also, I'm sure you've seen this in my log, but I'd like to recommend Fred Vargas's detective novels. She's a master of eccentric but likable characters, the kind of people who fill all the background roles in Amélie. And her prose is often excellent. There's a decent chance you'd enjoy her work. emk on 15 May 2013 |
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I saw some of you discussing Fred Vargas on your blog too. I'm ready to take a break from
all my heavy reading, and she sounds just about right. Thanks for the rec! kanewai on 17 May 2013 |
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Balzac Balzac Everwhere
Some day I'll have to try and read Balzac again - I keep seeing references to him in films and other books. The latest was in Les cousins (1959), where a bookstore owner complains that nobody in Paris reads Balzac anymore, that all the kids want is detective stories and porn. I can't tell if people drop his name just to sound intellectual, or if he really is that fantastic and my French isn't good enough to get it. I'm certainly ready for some detective stories, though maybe not French porn (although ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch8cTL2tN4c - Un chant d'amour (Jean Genet, 1950) was pretty intense ... ), and Fred Vargas novels are available on Amazon in the US. I don't know which one to start with, so I might just choose one at random. I made it through 300 pages of Au Bonheur des Dames. I only had 120 pages left, but it's a slow read and would've taken me two weeks more to finish - and I was ready to move on. About 75% of the book was a description of the store, the sales, the fabrics, and the 'new economy,' - the characters were all secondary. I cheated and read the ending on-line. And now I've finally started Ă la recherche du temps perdu (Marcel Proust). I meant to read something light, I really did ... I just wanted to read a few pages of Proust to see how it was. And then oops I was in deep. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ Greek has been very time consuming. I have the first ten lines of the Iliad memorized, and I understand the first twenty. Talk about slow going! That translates into three months of work to read one page. Spanish On hold one more week. and for those who are tempted to click on the Jean Genet link ... it's a silent film, so you don't get any Super Challenge credit for it! It also has some very explicit scenes (it was banned in France and the US), so you've been warned. 
kanewai on 24 May 2013 |
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Ă la recherche du temps perdu
Du cÎté de chez Swann Combray I un baiser de ses yeux Oh my Proust's writing is beautiful. I read half of Swann's Way in English a couple years ago. I made it through the first two parts (Combray I and II), but stalled in the third (Swann in Love). I enjoyed it, and don't remember why I didn't finish it, but told myself that one day I would try it again. It's something else entirely in French - so far Combray I is dreamy and funny and sad. It's also surprisingly easy to read. The sentences are long and winding, but the vocabulary is much easier than it is in Hugo, Balzac, and Zola. There's pure poetry - I need to re-read a lot of passages to understand them (the narrator describes his body as a gardiens fidÚles d'un passé que mon esprit n'aurait jamais dû oublier, a faithful guardian of a past that my spirit would never be able to forget), but it's a pleasure to re-read them, and to let them wash over me. There are also a lot of comic sections - I wasn't expecting this at all. Here are some of the passages I've highlighted, just in the first dozen pages:
The hope of being consoled gave him the courage to suffer
It's another type of life that we lead at Tansonville, at Madame Saint-Loups, another type of pleasure that I find in only leaving at night, in following by the light of the moon the roads where I had previously played in the sun, and the room where I would sleep instead of dressing for dinner, which I can see from far off, as we return, crossed by the flames of the lamp, a lone lighthouse in the night
She was so humble of heart, and so gentle that the tenderness she felt for others, and the little care she gave to her own person and her own suffering, hiding it all behind a smile where, unlike what we see in most people, there was no sense of irony except towards herself, and for all of us her regard was like a kiss from her eyes; she wasn't able to look at those she cherished without passionately caressing them with her gaze.
Already a man in my cowardice, I did what we all do, once we are grown, when we see suffering and injustice: I chose not to see them. kanewai on 25 May 2013 |
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French versus Spanish
I'm back from a quick trip to Montréal and Vermont. I didn't get as much language practice as I wanted, but had plenty of time to read on the flights there and back. I was actually a bit frustrated with my French the first few days. I was stumbling over the most basic phrases, and no one seemed to be able to understand a word I said. It wasn't just the Quebeçoois, either - it was Europeans, too. Everyone just switched to English automatically, and I was usually to self conscious to insist on French. It was even more frustrating when I met a guy from Columbia, and was able to have a decent conversation with him ... in Spanish. It's strange: I know significantly more French than Spanish, but when it comes to small talk my French is horrible. I don't know if this is because Spanish is just easier to pronounce, or if it's because I've spent far more time in Spanish-speaking places than French-speaking places in my life. There's only one solution I can see: I need to spend more time in Paris. Or Nice, or Marseilles ... I need to be immersed. If they only weren't all so far away! I did better when I spent a morning browsing bookstores (a thousand thanks for the reviews, http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=24268&TPN=24 - Songlines ! in the Latin Quarter. All of the owners and workers there let me speak French, and were patient while I searched for the right word or expression. And what wonderful bookstores they were. I remember when we used to have them in every city, back once upon a time. I visited three: http://www.montrealplus.ca/montreal/venues/la-libr airie-du-square-inc?set_language=en - La Librarie du Square (a small neighborhood bookstore); http://planetebd.blogspot.ca/ - PlanÚte BD (graphic novels everywhere, and not at all like the geeky US comic book stores); and http://www.librairiemichelfortin.com/fr/ - Librairie Michel Fortin (language geek heaven - Songlines). And I spent lots of money, and I now that I'm home I wish that I had spent even more. My haul should keep me busy for awhile. I picked up books from four modern authors that were on my reading list: Mémoires d'Hadrien (Marguerite Yourcenar, 1951), L'écume des jours (Boris Vian, 1947), La vie mode d'emploi (Georges Perec, 1978), and L'homme à l'envers (Fred Vargas, 1999). I had never heard of Fred Vargas until people on HTLAL started talking about her. I read half of L'homme on the plane home, and it's been a fun read. The story is set in the south of France, where a very large rogue wolf has been killing lambs. Some of the villagers are convinced it's a loup-garou, and tensions are rising. The writing level is similar to the middle Harry Potter books, so it's an accessible novel for language learners. I also bought two bandes dessinées, a Persepolis integral edition, and http://voir.ca/livres/rayons/2013/04/11/festival-de-la- bd-real-godbout-lamerique-ou-le-disparu-lamerique-ou-le-disp aru/ - L'Amérique ou Le Disparu ( Réal Godbout, 2013), based upon an unfinished novel by Kafka. I saw L'AmÚrique in the windows of lots of stores, so thought that must be the new 'big' bd. Turns out it was being promoted because it was drawn and written by a local professor. We'll see if it's good. Did you all read how Chicago public schools recently ordered that Persepolis be http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/mar/19/persepolis-battl e-chicago-schools-outcry - removed from the classroom ? It was always on my reading list, but even more so after this. Integral editions are hard to find; I'm glad I found one. There were so many more that I wanted to buy, but bd are as expensive in the stores as they are online. All this, and I'm still only 150 pages or so into Proust (it's hard to count pages on the kindle). His language is dreamy, but it's a slow, slow read. I've got aways to go. And it's also time for me to shift more attention to Spanish - I have one month before I head to Peru. I don't want to switch: I'm enjoying the progress I am making in French. I see a lot of discussions on HTLAL on balancing multiple languages. I find that I can do it at the beginning level of learning, 0 >> A, and A >> B, but have been surprised at how challenging it's been to juggle multiple languages at the B >> C progression. This requires such massive amounts of native material input; there just isn't enough time in the day to do two properly. Next update: My first thoughts on Spanish Pimsleur IV, Assimil Perfectionnement Espagnol, duck gizzards, and blue butterflies in the stomach. kanewai on 06 June 2013 |
You're very welcome - glad the info. came in useful! La Librarie du Square was also on my wishlist, but it was closed when I was in the area, and I didn't have time to make a return visit. I'll have to try again next time... We're both currently reading a couple of the same authors, by the way: I have the first of the Fred Vargas (The Three Evangelists/ Debout les morts), and also Tome 4 of Persepolis (having finished the first three volumes). Time to do an overdue post on my log about a couple of other BD discoveries too. Intrigued by the duck gizzards and blue butterflies... songlines on 09 June 2013 |
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French
My brother-in-law goes to Paris a lot for work (and he doesn't even like it ... the good things are spoiled on him!), and uses Word Lens to help him. It's an "augmented reality translation application" for smart phones - you point the phone at a word, and it translates the word into English (or your TL). It's pretty amazing. However, it works better for words, not phrases or lots of text. Pages of print seem to confuse it. It's probably better for menus, signs, and things with large print. It would have helped me in MontrĂ©al, where I accidently ordered my poutine with confit of duck gizzard. I'm back to reading French rather than actively studying it. And I'm thinking, maybe that's ok. I don't have a lot of opportunities to speak French, and it might be more realistic to aim for reading fluency, and possibly movie/tv comprehension. And then, when I have the chance to go back to Europe or North Africa I'll reactivate it. It's also fun that there are a couple of us reading some of the same books. This is so much a better book club than Oprah's! L'homme Ă l'envers (Fred Vargas, 1999)- The first part of the book was great, and tightly plotted, as the wolf (if it's a wolf) moves from killing sheep to killing people, but the middle part feels a bit aimless. Not much happens - it's as if Vargas had to deliver a 300 page novel, but only had 200 pages of material. From one review on Amazon: Un bon dĂ©but, une bonne fin, mais dans le centre, je m'ennuie. I'm on the final third now, and it seems to be picking up again. Du cĂŽte de chez Swann (Marcel Proust, 1913) - I've read two different ways to read Proust. One camp says the key is to go slow, to only read a couple pages at a time, and to savor each little bite. The other camp says to read it fast (per http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/How-to-Read-a-Hard-Book/3 - Oprah's Book Club : f you want to finish Marcel Proust's In Search of Lost Time, here is the secret: Read fast. Read for plotâthough you won't understand what the plot is until the end). At this point, 250 pages in, there really hasn't been much plot at all, so I don't understand Oprah's camp at all. And I'm all for taking time; this feels much more like reading a book of poetry than reading a novel. Also, the sentences are so long and dreamlike, and he moves so effortlessly between scenes (somehow we move from his aunt's bedroom to a church to a hawthorn grove without ever noticing the transition) that I get completlely lost if I rush. And I do need to be focused when I read Proust. I also get lost if there is any interruption, or if I'm tired, or distracted at all. He's not hard to read, he just requires complete immersion in his world. Persepolis (Marjane Satrapi, 2000). I'm very happy I found a complete edition (with all four volumes). It's divided into smaller, four to five page chapters, so it's a perfect read when I only have fifteen minutes to kill. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ I have about fifteen lines of the Iliad memorized. I might let Greek rest a while, and then re-focus on it during August's 6WC. Spanish This is my month to immerse myself in Spanish. I'm approaching it from a handful of angles: Pimsleur IV. to Lesson 9. I downloaded this from audible.com, where it costs five credits (about $70). For this price, it's a fantastic course. I felt that Pimsleur III was a bit weak; I'm much happier with this fourth level. The dialogues feel more natural, there's less useless repetition, and there's a nice mix of tenses in each lesson. The only drawback so far with audible is that I can't share the program. Although most people who I've tried to share with never actually do the program, so maybe it's not an issue. Assimil Perfectionnement Espagnol. to Lesson 3. I had a hard time reading the French and then translating it into Spanish. I usually don't have a problem with interference, but it was hitting hard here. The first lesson was rough! The next two each got easier; I think I just needed time to mentally transition from working on French to working on Spanish. FSI Volume 3 - on Lesson 37. This section deals with subjunctive phrases in dependent clauses. I'm not ready for it! Maybe in another week. Isabel - I'm almost finished with the season. They're still filming the second season, so I don't know when it will be released in the US. Drama Fever is expanding their Latin selection, so it should be easy to find another show to watch. I also have a great example of the dangers of Google translate - a text from a Columbian friend, who's English is not that good, saying my soul is full of blue butterflies. It sounds sad. I'm assuming that this is something idiomatic in Spanish that didn't survive the translation at all. kanewai on 10 June 2013 |
My first Vargas story was Salut et liberté, which was a tight short story. Vargas sketched the characters with admirable efficiency, given the limits of length. In the two longer books I tried (one finished, one in progress), she sometimes runs into a weird problem: her books are driven by wonderful characters, and she can sketch a character brilliantly in a few pages. But once she has interesting characters, they either need to drive events in the story (which should ideally follow from their quirks) or need to undergo personal change. But sometimes she settles for somewhat static interactions that merely emphasize an already thorough characterization. Fortunately, everything I've read so far has ended well. Still, all that said, I love her books. There's tons of great writing, and she's always warmly sympathetic to her oddball characters. emk on 10 June 2013 |
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You might want to skip L'homme then! You nailed the first parts of the book:
she laid out the situation brilliantly, and introduced a lot of interesting characters. Then there was a long static period like you described. The last third felt more like a traditional detective story. The pace picked up, and I finished the last 100 pages in two days - and then came an awful and unrealistic final resolution. This was her second book, and it looks like she gets better reviews on Goodreads and Amazon for the books that came later. Also, I've been searching for foreign-language audio books on audible.com, but all I found were children's books, lots of Scientology / L Ron Hubbard novels, and translations of 50 Shades of Grey into every language imaginable. I can't imagine anything more painful. edit: ok, I just noticed on the twitter challenge bot that you already read L' homme a l'envers. kanewai on 12 June 2013 |
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I'm still trying to find a balance for the next couple weeks ... right now I've started
about seven books (two French novels, two Spanish, two BD, and an English audio book). That, on top of Pimsleur, FSI, and Assimil. As much as I'd like to lie around the house all day reading, there is this pesky job I do, and friends to have drinks with, and the surf is looking good this summer. This list might look impressive, until you realize that I've only read the first chapter of some of these books. Du cĂŽte de chez Swann. I picked up a hard English copy at the library to help me with the difficult passages ... and was shocked to see that I was only on page 160 (it's hard to tell the page number on the kindle). And Proust has started to show his darker side. We've gone from dipping madelines in tea, long walks while the hawthorn trees bloom, and gossiping with his eccentric aunts to spying on his lesbian neighbor while she makes love. Yeah. I didn't see that coming at all. MĂ©moires d'Hadrien. Marguerite Yourcenar,1951. I wanted to balance Proust with something fun, and I love Roman history. This novel, about the life of the Emperor Hadrian, makes a lot of lists of "Best French novels." So far, though, it's heavier reading than I anticipated. I might save it for later. Bandes dessinĂ©es: Marjane is seeing the dark side of revolution as her relatives flee the new Islamic Republic, and war is declared with Iraq, by the end of the first book of PersĂšpolis. And in Algiers, all the girls are excited by the arrival of Le Malka des Lions in the second book of Le chat du rabbin. I'm enjoying both immensely. Harry Potter y la Orden del FĂ©nix. I've had this on my kindle for months. I'm frustrated with how much I struggle with reading the Spanish. I try and remind myself that I was slow with French at this point also - it took me four weeks to read Le petit prince. Still, I don't think I have the patience for 1000 pages, not at this pace. Harry Potter will wait a bit longer. El capitĂĄn Alatriste. Arturo PĂ©rez Reverte, Spain, 1996. This is a simple swashbuckler, and I'm not expecting much more than a fun ride. I have a hard copy in English from the library, and I'm treating it like a parallel text. also: Pimsleur IV. The first ten lessons were great. Lesson 12 makes me worry for the rest of the series ... it' s like the course took a few humongous steps back. The whole lesson was on things like "it's raining" and "I want a blue umbrella" and "I want to send an electronic message (mensage electronico) to my son." This one really irritated me ... I cannot believe that Spaniards say mensage electronico for email. It's too much. I hope that lesson 12 was a one-off, and the rest of the course is better. Assimil. Ahh Assimil. I like you, but you irritate the f--- out of me sometimes. Lesson 5 introduced a young couple who meet cute, and start a romance. I hope it ends soon. I hated, and I mean hated, the insipid romantic story that Assimil had in Using French. FSI. We're at a cocktail party, and the Lieutenant's wife is stressed that her maid has not shown up yet. She has had such a hard day. It was so hard to get good help in 1954. The men are drinking whisky, and oblivious to it all. and in the news ... I learned that the Spanish for gay lobby is le lobby gay, which is somewhat disappointing. I was hoping for something more fun to say, to amuse and amaze my friends. (The pope's actual remarks: Se habla del âlobby gayâ, y es verdad, estĂĄ ahĂ). And this: Turkish protesters in Taksim sing "Do You Hear the People Sing" from Les Mis in Turkish and English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v= KGt0fsyTnRs#! - Chapuller Choir kanewai on 14 June 2013 |
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Pimsluer Level IV Rant: Lesson 13 was absolutely ridiculous. I'll demand my
money back if the rest of the level is like this. Or at least leave a nasty review on Amazon. The crimes: - Calling email "electronic messages" and phone cards "cards for making calls" (tarjetas para hacer llamadas). I'm sure these are technically correct, but I do not believe for a second these are the words people use in their day to day conversations. - Having a third of the lesson be devoted to buying air mail stamps, and sending a package via air mail. I've never in my life had to buy an airmail stamp, though I remember seeing them from when I was young. Didn't that go out in the 1960s or early 1970s? I cannot figure out why a course that was written in 2011 is so focused on obsolete terms. But I really lost it when the closing dialogue was asking for a beer at a cafe - I swear this was the dialogue from Level 1, Lesson 2. grrr. Level IV started out so well. I really hope it gets back on track. kanewai on 16 June 2013 |
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oo, "airmail stamps" is pretty bad. Are they talking about collectors? :)
I have to scratch out words like "Baba" in the very first lesson of German as a foreign language. This is supposedly something only Austrians say (from bye-bye) that all learners are supposed to accept. I don't know where these language programs get their ideas for translations. Sometimes my only friend in these matters is Google. :) Sunja on 16 June 2013 |
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I went to the Friends of the Library booksale this weekend, and found lots of old
French paperbacks, hiding in the same back shelf they were on last year. And so cheap - I guess there's not much of a market here, as I picked up nine novels for $7.50. Of course, I haven't even finished the books I bought last year, and now I have two to three years worth of French lit waiting for me. On my Kindle: Les misĂ©rables, Tome V: Jean Valjean. Victor Hugo. A la recherche du temps perdu (Ă©dition complĂšte), Marcel Proust La belle et la bĂȘte. Jeanne-Marie Leprince de Beaumont, 1740 Le Rouge et le Noir. Stendhal,1830 La chartreuse de Parme. Stendhal, 1839 PĂȘcheur d'Islande, Pierre Loti, 1886. Les chants de Maldoror, Comte de LautrĂ©amont. 1869 Books at home: La condition humaine. AndrĂ© Malraux, 1933 Vendredi ou les limbes du pacifique. Michel Tournier,1967 Nadja. AndrĂ© Breton, 1928 Candide, ou l'optimisme, Voltaire, 1759 RenĂ©, Chateaubriand, 1802 L'Ă©cume des jours, Boris Vian 1947 La vie mode d'emploi, Georges Perec 1978 lib:eng Antigone, Jean Anouilh, 1944. Voyage au bout de la nuit, Louis-Ferdinand CĂ©line 1932 Le soulier de satin, Paul Claudel. 1929 Journal d'un curĂ© de campagne, Georges Bernanos. 1936 Le petit Nicolas, Jean-Jacques SempĂ©, RenĂ© Goscinny. 1960. Les caves du Vatican, AndrĂ© Gide. 1914 Le moulin de Pologne, Jean Giono. 1972 Parallel Texts: Vol de nuit. Antoine de Saint-ExupĂ©ry, 1931 Les liasons dangereuses. Choderlos de Laclos Suite française. IrĂšne NĂ©mirovsky, 1942 Right now my plan is to finish the first book of Proust (200 pages in, and there is finally a plot!), to finally finish Les Mis (I left everyone at the barricades), and then read a couple easier works so that I can get my page-count back up for the Super Challenge. For Spanish, I finally settled on Harry Potter y la Orden del FĂ©nix. I was having trouble making the switch to reading full novels, and I was taking me hours to read just a couple pages of even the easier authors. HP is working for me - I'm 100 pages in already. I had a rough start, but am starting to internalize more of the verb conjugations, which makes reading much easier. kanewai on 25 June 2013 |
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Hi, Kanewai, it's been too long since I last read your log and so much has been happening!
I read L'homme a l'envers too and I totally agree that the middle is worse than the beginning and the end. I wouldn't personally recommend this one as the first Vargas, I believe she wrote better ones. Debout les morts is totally awesome and really fun in my opinion. Persepolis is a wonderful choice and I am troubled by that Chicago issue (thanks for the information, I hadn't known). How can something like that happen in a civilized country? It is a great book which I hope to get for my younger siblings when they are around 12 or so. And the wordings (in the article) like "making sure the children take the right message of it", that is disgusting. What the hell happens to America? You found Spanish easier to speak despite your French being at higher level? It is a bit similar to me. I am having much easier time with the practical skills in Spanish (compared to what I was able to do when I had the same level French). One of the reason might be the shared vocab (and grammar) that you already know and that isn't an obstacle. But I think there is more. I felt much more at ease speaking with the Spanish than the French. Despite my mistakes and everything, the Spanish weren't trying to switch to English. Perhaps this lack of need to defend your language choice is making you more comfortable and that helps? Congrats, you are the first to make me consider reading Proust! Several literature teachers have tried but now, for the first time, I am putting it on my "to read" list. Thanks. It's great to hear of your progress, you are amazing! Cavesa on 25 June 2013 |
This sounds very familiar for me too, but for Italian - my French is technically much better, but in Italian I feel much more, exactly as you put it, at ease. I think it's because I've made friends with Italian people recently and we often converse in Italian, which has made the language more "real" and more a part of my life as opposed to an academic exercise. People not wanting to switch to English is probably also a big factor - in French, I often feel like I have to speak at my very best in order to "convince" them to take me seriously as a competent speaker and so not switch to English, which just puts me under pressure. garyb on 27 June 2013 |
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34 Pages
It's http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/75460-2013-the-year-of-r eading-proust - The Year of Reading Proust at Goodreads, and there has been a great reading group who are working their way through à la recherche du temps perdu. The group, however, is already starting the fourth volume, and I'm still working my way throught the first. I've been following the conversation after-the-fact, and it's really helped me get a grasp on just what this novel is about. I only had 34 pages to go until the next benchmark & discussion forum. I hoped to reach it Friday after work ... but instead the whole weekend passed, it took me four tries & I still couldn't even make it. It was sentences like this that were killing me: And yet at this point a slight irritation or physical discomfort - by making him consider the present moment an exceptional one, outside the rules, one in which even common wisdom would agree that he could accept the appeasement afforded by pleasure and allow his will, until it might be useful to resume the effort, to rest - would suspend the action of the latter, which would cease to exert its pressure; or, less than that, the memory of something he had forgotten to ask Odette, whether she had decided which color she wanted to have her carraige painted, or, with regard to a certain vestment, whether it was common or preferred shares that she wanted to buy (it was all very well to show her that he could live without seeing her, but if, after that, the painting had to be done all over again or the shares paid no divident, a lot of good it would have done him), and like a stretched piece of elastic that is let go or the air in a pneumatic machine that is opened, the idea of seeing her again, from the far distance where it had been kept, would have come back in a single leap into the field of the present and of immediate possibilities. (from the Lydia Davis translation) I can't even make sense of this in English, much less French, and there have been a lot of sentences (note that that is only one sentence!) like this recently. There have have been other hard parts that have been brilliant once I've untangled them. Right now, though, I just want to get this section over and done with. kanewai on 15 July 2013 |
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July Update
I'm entering into cruise mode here ... I intend to keep reading heavily in both Spanish and French, but I don't really have the time or inclination to actively study. There are too many English language books, movies, and podcasts that I also enjoy, and I've been putting them aside for close to two years now. I haven't decided what to do about Greek; I'm thinking about buying one of those books by Geoffrey Steadman or Pamela Draper that takes you through the Iliad or Odyssey line by line. What I haven't decided on yet is quite how to balance the two languages. I can try to do both (French books and Spanish movies, alternating with Spanish books and French movies), or I can alternate my focus (say ten days all French, ten days all Spanish). I'll experiment around until I find the right balance. Since my last full update: Cusco was wonderful. I was there with 11 members of my family, none of whom spoke much Spanish. I did a lot of basic translations at the hotel and at restaurants, but had disappointingly few one-on-one conversations. I thought my Spanish was sub par. I think being surrounded by the forces of chaos (a.k.a. my family) made it harder to transition to thinking in a foreign language. A lot of the people we met were either fluent in English, or native Quechua speakers whose own Spanish was poor. Pimsleur IV was a vast improvement over Pimsleur Plus, and a stronger entry in the series than the disappointing Pimsleur III. There were still parts that were weak, and too simple for a fourth-level series, and I wish that they had focused a lot more on more complex tenses and irregular verbs. Still, I'd highly recommend it for travelers if you can find a discounted copy. I paid $70 on audible.com, which was a fair price. I don't think it's worth the retail price at all. Assimil Espanol - Perfeccionamiento is still sitting on my shelf, sad and lonely. I just don't find it as interesting as Harry Potter. I think that it will help me make the transition to more serious literature, but I'm not there yet. FSI also sits on the side, for both French and Spanish. I intend to finish both some day. For now, the lessons are too advanced for where I'm at. I can do them, mind you, but I feel like my time is better spent getting more comfortable with the basics of the language than in drilling on the nuances of the subjunctive. My kindle says I have four hours left with the first book of Proust. Yeay! There are sections of the book that are agonizing, and feel like it's the most epic feat of navel-gazing ever. And then there are passages where I think: this is the most beautiful thing that I have ever read. kanewai on 19 July 2013 |
Anyone who has attempted Proust might enjoy this alternate title:
The final section, Nom de pays: le nom, wrapped things up beautifully. I'd highly recommend Proust for anyone who has the patience, and time, to work through it. I was tempted to move right on to the second volume, but I want to tackle some of the books on my bookshelf first. So, I'm finally starting MĂ©moires d'Hadrien (Marguerite Yourcenar, 1951) a historical novel / meditation on the life of the Roman Emperor Hadrian. He was one of my favorite Roman emperors from Mike Duncan's History of Rome podcast - he preferred the mysteries of Athens to the politics of Rome, took a cruise down the Nile with his Greek lover, and traveled through most to the empire. He also instigated the Second Jewish War ... he's definitely not a hero to everyone. I'm looking forward to the read. I'm still having trouble with French movies. I've been bored by the last four I started, and this includes some classics that everyone but me seems to love. Amazon just made a bunch available for streaming, but almost every single one gets crap reviews on IMDB. I'm debating how to move forward the rest of the summer. I have a handful of choices, and I change my mind about every hour or two on the best approach: 1. Continue with the Super Challenge with Spanish and French. This is actually the best, most rational, most enjoyable option. 2. Add Greek. I worked on Ancient Greek for six months, then took two off. At this point I need to use it or lose it. I enjoyed it, but it takes a fair amount of time and concentration to study. 3. Add Japanese. This is the worst option, but I might have the chance to spend ten days in Tokyo this November. If I do, I think I should be starting the Japanese now. I already have the Pimsleur and Michel Thomas courses, so I could actually start Japanese during my commute. 4. Do it all. Read on my lunch break, do Japanese while riding to work, do a half hour of Greek between work and the gym, & watch a bit of Spanish or French tv at night. It's theoretically possible. kanewai on 29 July 2013 |
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So I'm going with four languages. I know this is not sustainable, I know it won't work
and everything will fall apart, and yet ... I'm gonna try it. French - I'm on a nice plateau now where I can read without a lot of difficulty. I only use a dictionary for a word or two every couple pages; the rest I can usually understand through the context. This is how we were told to read in college, but I never could do it. It was a nice ideal, but it wasn't really possible at the level we were at. Now - after reading 75 100-page 'books' - I'm finally at that point. Spanish - Still working my way through Harry Potter. Greek - I've been copying out lessons that I've already done from Pharr, and have downloaded all the sentences from the whole book into Anki. I signed up for the Super Challenge with Greek, mostly so that I will maintain focus and keep at it. I don't even know what a realistic short-term goal is. Japanese - I did half of the first level of both Michel Thomas and Pimsleur a year ago, and then nothing since. I thought I'd forgotten all of it, but I've been doing Michel Thomas on my commute and I'm surprised how quickly its coming back. The only reason I can add Japanese is that I have a lot of programs I can do while commuting. And I kind of miss doing language tapes while I drive and bike! It'll be a lot rougher when I reach the point where I need to start writing and reading more. And the only reason I'm even doing Japanese is that I might go to Tokyo in November. I won't even know until October, but by then it will be too late to get a realistic basic grasp of the language. kanewai on 02 August 2013 |
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Good luck juggling these different languages! I also just started studying Japanese in preparation for a two
week trip to Tokyo in November. It's been difficult (as expected) but surprisingly fun. mike245 on 03 August 2013 |
As mentioned elsewhere, I'm somewhat in awe of your reading progress in French. You tackle formidable (in both Eng and Fr senses of the word) titles which I wouldn't even have the courage to consider. Re. Japanese, would your being based in Hawaii be any help in perhaps getting a language exchange partner? - I assume (? - Or might I be wrong?) any Japanese speakers there would already speak English, but perhaps you could do a French - Japanese exchange or somesuch? songlines on 06 August 2013 |
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I hear Japanese all the time here, so I think it'd be easy to find a language partner.
I almost wonder if having so much passive exposure makes it easier to learn. So fat Japanese doesn't seem too hard - nothing like Greek or Arabic. Although perhaps it's also because their are some conceptual similarities to Micronesian, which I know well. Or perhaps it's that Michel Thomas makes everything seem easy in the beginning! But sadly, I won't be going to Tokyo this fall (our union didn't sign the contract we all wanted them to sign, we're going into arbitration, and there will be no overseas adventures for me in the meantime. Boo.). So, now I'm not sure what to do with Japanese. It's not one of my target languages, but I have enough audio materials to keep me going for a couple months. I'll finish MT and then see how I feel. It's fantastic how quickly Japanese has come back - it makes me feel better about the other languages I've just flirted with. I thought maybe they were just gone. This past year I cut back on my flirting in order to focus on my target languages, 'cause I thought the flirting was just a distraction ... now I'm thinking I might start playing around again. There are only a few languages I want to learn to a high level, but there are a lot that I'd love to learn to an A1/A2 level (or in my mind, the "advanced tourist" level). kanewai on 07 August 2013 |
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Flirting with Japanese has re-energized my French.
I wish I knew how that worked, 'cause I could start marketing it as the all new revolutionary language learning technique. Japanese I finished seven out of eight Michel Thomas lessons in the past ten days. It was very enjoyable, albeit a bit exhausting at times. I was tempted to continue with Pimsleur, as I do enjoy the language & I have access to a lot of resources. But I also can't make a long term commitment, and so I think: what's the point? I also feel like I'm at a break-through point with French, and want to focus my energy there. French I followed erenko's post on http://www.livraphone.com/ - Livraphone , and was inspired to experiment a bit, doing the R-L method with a lot of short clips. And this feels right, like it's the method that will help me the most with my French at this point. My reading comprehension is good, but my listening comprehension is still mediocre, and my accent is appalling. I tried R-L with a few chapters of Candide and was surprised at how different the French I heard in my mind was from proper French. Maybe it's time to focus on achieving what the R-L guy calls natural listening. I'm going to give it a try. Candide is only about 100 pages, each chapter only takes six or seven minutes to listen to, and there's a decent free recording on http://librivox.org/candide-by-voltaire/ - LibraVox . If that works, then I'll buy one of the professional recordings from Libraphone. Their best-seller is Les rois maudits, a seven-volume historical epic that helped inspire Game of Thrones. I hadn't even heard of it until yesterday, but it looks great. The only catch is that the Libraphone recordings are around 20⏠each. Otherwise, I'm halfway through MĂ©moires d'Hadrien, which is fantastic, and I used the last of my audible credits to get the new Pimsleur French IV. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ I still can't get over just how many possible forms Greek nouns and verbs can take. How can anyone learn this??? My main book is still Pharr's Homeric Greek, and I use Draper's http://www.amazon.com/Iliad-Book-1-Bk/dp/0472067923 - Iliad Book 1 to get a deeper understanding of the text. I'm keeping my goals modest: I want to be able to read heavily annotated parallel texts of the Iliad and Odyssey by the end of the 6WC. I can't picture ever being able to read Ancient Greek casually, but I'm ok with that. Spanish I'm still working my way through Harry Potter y el Orden del FĂ©nix. It's slow going; I try and finish one chapter per week, and then go back to my French novels. If I can finish this and Assimil by the end of 2013 than I should be posed to do a full Spanish Super Challenge in 2014. I've been watching http://www.dramafever.com/drama/4146/1/Killer_Women/ - Mujeres Asesinas on Drama Fever. It's very well done, but it also deals with some serious low-lifes - one episode a week is enough for me. kanewai on 09 August 2013 |
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Have you looked at http://www.dramafever.com/drama/4248/1/Red_Eagle_-_Seaso ;n_1/ - Aguila Roja ? It's kind of a Spanish Zorro. I've only watched a few episodes of the first season. (DF has four seasons available.)
"Action, adventure, and intrigue collide in this impressive drama of a masked hero who fights against injustice in 17th century Spain, and is determined to find out who killed his wife. By day, Gonzalo de Montalvo is a teacher and a father. By night, he is Aguila Roja, or 'The Red Eagle', who fights against the corrupt local sheriff, HernĂĄn MejĂas, and Lucrecia, the Marchioness de Santillana. No one knows of his true identity, except for his faithful servant Satur and a mysterious monk. With his ninja-like skills, Gonzalo will stop at nothing to avenge his wife's death, and stop the conspiracies against the Spanish crown." As the story unfolds, it's becoming more interesting. I peeked on Wikipedia (oops!), and it looks like it will get better yet. I have the same problem with this as I did with Isabela - even more so, I think. European Spanish is a lot harder for me to understand. But it's good practice. :) Kerrie on 09 August 2013 |
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Six Week Challenges are Mental
I peaked in the 6WC at #36 in my target language (Ancient Greek) and #14 overall. This might be the highest I reach - I won't have as much free time in the coming weeks. Keeping track of all the time I spend motivates me to spend a lot more time studying, and I wouldn't be able to balance so many languages otherwise, but it's also kind of mental. I don't think I could do more than one 6WC a year. French As usual, it's been a month of great books and crappy movies. Or at least, movies I didn't like. Starting with the good: I loved http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1112273.M_moires_d_Hadrie n - MĂ©moires d'Hadrien . It starts off as a historical epic, segues into a meditation on mortality, and then becomes a heart-breaking romance (the emperor's lover, Antonious, drowns during a cruise on the Nile, and Hadrien scandalizes Rome when he attempts to make him a god). I've uploaded the https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8zg0WwJ81M2U3JaUllJajV6YzA/ edit?usp=sharing - parallel text if anyone wants it. I've been doing a modified listen-read of Voltaire's http://librivox.org/candide-by-voltaire/ - Candide . Each chapter is only five to ten minutes, and the whole book is only 100 pages, so I don't mind reading each chapter twice. It's surprisingly raunchy, sacrilegous, and funny. At the half-way point: Candide murdered the Grand Inquisitor, disguised himself as a priest, and fled to the Amazon - only to be caught by cannibals who are planning to have jesuit en broche for dinner. And I am finally starting on the last section of Les misĂ©rables. Jean Valjean has gone to the barricades to find Marius, the army has them surrounded, and all the young men are preparing to die. The other sections started with long - really long - tangents. This time Hugo is jumping right into the action. The first flic I enjoyed was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3ZJt07o81o - Les demoiselles de Rochefort (Jacques Demy, 1967). A very silly romantic musical about two twins in Rochefort. I stumbled on it on Hulu. It's all bubblegum colors, big hair, jazz dancing, and go-go boots (men and women!), and I can't tell if it's awful or brilliant - but it's a lot of fun to watch. It stars real-life sisters Catherine Deneuve and Françoise DorlĂ©ac (who died in a car accident the same year), and has a great cameo by Gene Kelly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccy5YqZfq4c - Le beau serge (Claude Chabrol,1958) was also good - a young man returns to his home town, and finds that his best friend, the beautiful Serge, is now the mean town drunk. Flics I didn't enjoy? I couldn't finish Season 2 of Engrenage, I was irritated by Le fabuleux destin d'AmĂ©lie Poulain (I think I'm the only one; everyone else seems to love AmĂ©lie), and was bored senseless by L'armĂ©e des ombre. I did finish Trois couleurs: Bleu, but didn't think that was good either. All of these, I should note, get excellent reviews. I think I might just be damaged when it comes to French movies. I've really disliked most of the 'classics' I've seen, and have really enjoyed some of the obscure ones I've found by chance. æ„æŹèȘ I didn't do a good job of quitting Japanese like I said I would. Instead, I've been doing a Pimsleur lesson each day, and am now on Lesson 15. I've also practiced the kana a few times, and it doesn't seem that hard. The kanji (Chinese-derived characters), though, still seem like a nightmare. So. I don't know what to do. I overheard some Japanese tourists speaking, and it was cool that I could pick out the parts of speech, even if I didn't know what they were saying. But I also know that pretty soon I will have to start studying outside of Pimselur and Michel Thomas, and I do not have time for that at all. Pimsleur Japanese has the same pros and cons as the other Pimsleur courses. Right now I am in the middle of the awful section on numbers and time (Do you want to have lunch at 2:00? 2:00 is not good. Do you want to have lunch at 3:00? 3:00 is not good. Do you want to shoot the narrator? Hai) This is like medicine: I hate it, but I know it's good for me. What's worse is Pimsleur's standard, endless section on tennis and golf ... I know it's coming, and I know I am going to suffer when it does. Pimsleur also sucks for it's lack of explanations. I still cannot figure out when to use the suffixes -ka, -wa, or -o. I think I've figured it out, but then I get it wrong. But Pimsleur is also great because I can just put the recording on and start, and it is challenging to recall phrases in the time allowed. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ I'm online 42 of the Iliad (Chapter 21 of Pharr). Greek is also mental - I try and read 100 pages of French a week, but am happy with only ten lines of Greek a week. This week's struggle has been with particples - verbs that act as adjectives to nouns, and which are declined like nouns; have gender; exist in the past, present, and future; can be active, passive, or medio-passive; & can be indicative, subjunctive, or optative. Homer loves participles, so I can't pretend they don't exist. I totally lost the plot when Assimil and Teach Yourself started with participles. There is a zero percent chance that I will master them this round, but I figure if I can at least recognize them I'll be able to progress. I need to remind myself that learning Ancient Greek is going to be a long-range, possibly life-long journey. And a slow journey at that. Otherwise I would've stressed out and quit already. Spanish I'll check out Aguila Roja this weekend - thanks for the rec, Kerrie! Otherwise, I've been neglecting poor Spanish once again. I don't know why I keep doing this - Spanish is one of my priority languages. kanewai on 23 August 2013 |
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Random late night thoughts ...
- When I show up at work tomorrow tired and red eyed, I am totally blaming Kerrie. I started watching Ăguila Rojo tonight, and only intended to watch about twenty minutes - but once I started I had to finish the first episode. Gonzalo de Montalvo is a poor teacher with an alter-ego: the ninja-esque Red Eagle, who fights for justice in 16th Century Spain. I'm hooked. - I like pulpy Spanish tv shows far far better than most 'great' French movies. One day maybe I'll understand why. - It's been interesting reading Les MisĂ©rables while watching the news on Syria and Egypt. The news is so depressing (and so is Les Mis), but the book reminds me that Europe had to go through many revolutions in the 19th Century, and that the struggles for freedom in the Middle East aren't going to be won in a single decade. - I've seen the musical, I have the soundtrack, and I read the book in English in high school. I know how it all ends, and I was wondering if I'd even enjoy Les MisĂ©rables given all that. I'm finally approaching the end - only 300 pages to go! - and the answer is an unequivocal yes! The book is frustrating at times, but overall the novel is phenomenal - the stage production is only a shadow of the book. And I loved the musical. - I almost threw in the towel for Japanese this weekend. Once again, I thought: what's the point? Then I read that Teango is going to try something like eight languages, at fifteen minutes a day each. Given that, who am I to complain about two 'extra' languages? I'll be watching his log for hints on how to manage this! kanewai on 26 August 2013 |
I would say I'm sorry, but I'm not. :) It's always great to find something you really enjoy. Just be warned, it gets better. :D I suggest stopping in the middle of an episode, when stuff starts to slow down for a minute, and writing down the time so you can come back to that spot. They like to leave you hanging at the end!
I think you and your enthusiasm for French literature may be what pushes me in the direction of French rather than Italian for next year. I have actually never seen Les Misérables and don't know the story, so I may have to go watch it just see check it out. Is there a particular version you'd suggest? (Besides the original books? LOL) I am seriously impressed with what you've accomplished with your French reading the last year. It is really amazing and inspiring. :) Kerrie on 26 August 2013 |
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More random notes
- I was hoping that Part V of Les Mis might be all action, but about 80 pages in Hugo goes off on a long diversion about the history and symbolism of the Paris sewers. The tangents kill me! I read an essay by Maris Vargas Llosa, The Temptation of the Impossible, that said that the tangents were the real purpose of Les MisĂ©rables, and that the dramatic plot was just a trick Hugo used to get people to read his philosophy. For myself, I hate these digressions. I'd like to read Notre Dame one day, but not if Hugo does the same thing there. - The http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/ - Perseus Digital Library has Latin and Greek texts online, and you can click on any word to find the definition and full declension. Now, I have been having trouble because so many of the tenses and cases look the same to me. It turns out my books only pretend to give definite answers, as the scholars themselves don't even agree. Take this line: ÏÏÎΌΌαÏៜ áŒÏÏÎœ áŒÎœ ÏΔÏÏ᜶Μ (stemmat' ekhon en khersin) Perseus gives these probabilities for the declension of ÏÏÎÎŒÎŒÎ±Ï (garland): singular neutral dative 14.9% plural neutral vocative 21% plural neutral nominative 22.4% plural neutral accusative 26.5% dual neutral vocative 4.9%   dual neutral nominative 5% dual neutral accusative 5.2% And these for áŒÏÏÎœ (bear, carry, bring) participle (singular present active) 83% imperfect (3rd person plural) 2.6% imperfect (1st person singular) 1.7% The gist of the sentence is, 'he was carrying the garlands in his hands,' but beyond that it all falls apart. This is somewhat liberating. I don't see any point in memorizing Greek grammar if the experts don't even agree. kanewai on 27 August 2013 |
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@ Kerrie - My first recommendation would be to fly to London and see the musical! But
barring that (it would be a bit extravagant, I suppose), the trailer for the Hollywood version looked pretty good, though I haven't seen it yet. I really think it helps to know the story before you dive into the French. The book has Big Themes (love, betrayal, redemption, the meaning of life, stuff like that), so knowing the basic plot won't hurt. - I woke up this morning (ok, afternoon) a bit hung over. I tried listening to my next Pimsleur Japanese lesson, and I did not understand a single word. It took a good five minutes before any of it came back. I'm reaching the point where I can't do this on my commute anymore, so I either make it a 'real' language or I put it aside. I'll know in a couple days if I'll be going to Tokyo or not this fall, so that will impact my decision. - I don't think I have the patience for the Listening-Reading method. It does help, but I don't like re-reading a book's chapter two or three times - I'm too impatient to move on. On top of that my mind tends to drift when I'm reading a good book. Just now, I was listening / reading to Candide's adventures in Venice during Carnival. The novel went in one direction (a dinner party with six deposed kings), but my mind went in another (ooh, Carnival in Venice! Wouldn't that be fun. I want to go! ... I'm easily distracted by shiny objects). With a physical book that's no problem. With an audiobook it's a bit problematic. kanewai on 01 September 2013 |
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I hated those parts of Les Mis too! I read it in Czech nearly ten years ago (and I consider trying the original) and I was skipping parts of them. 1 or 2 pages of this were usually ok, 3-5 sufferable, there rest had to be skipped :-D
Notre Dame is much easier to read (I think in any language compared to Les Mis) as there are no such tangents. Or perhaps there are but so few and small that I can't remember. I think you'll like it. There are more authors who use the plot as bait to lure the innocent readers into the realm of education. Fowles does this and the diversions are not that bad (The French Lieutenant's Woman is mostly a lecture on the victorian society. The sad thing is I enjoyed the diversions more than the story.), Eco's Name of the Rose is the best example of joining an awesome story with fun education. I'd actually love to read him in original one day. I'll need to read back on your log as I don't remember you learning Ancient Greek. It sounds fascinating! I was recently tempted by this old jewel during watching Caprica (Ancient Greek playing the Tauron language). But I still own some good sense residues and my wanderlust days are (hopefully) over. And how do you like Candide? I've considered reading him but I never got the courage or an opportunity I couldn't miss. Cavesa on 02 September 2013 |
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Candide is a trip. We read Voltaire in college, but there were so many rules (i.e., don't
use an English version as a crutch, try to understand words from context rather than looking them up in a dictionary) that I don't think I got much out of him. Now? I'm amazed at how raunchy and obscene Candide is. I'm not sure how I missed this in school! It's only 100 pages, so it's a good classic to attempt. I would love to read Umberto Eco in Italian. One day, I hope. And I'm glad to hear that Notre Dame is an easier read than Les Mis! kanewai on 02 September 2013 |
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Every time I make a study plan, life comes along and knocks it around.
Last week, I put Japanese aside. It was taking too much mental energy, and I wasn't ready for a long term commitment. And it was kind of pleasant to return to focusing more heavily on just French and Greek. I found a nice balance, and I had a good plan to reintegrate Spanish soon. And then. This afternoon my ex - a sushi chef - called about going to Tokyo over Thanksgiving. Neither of us has ever been, and tickets have dropped below $700. I can't pass that up. And so, Nihhon-ga is back on. And my language study is going to get chaotic again. Japanese - It's getting too hard to do Japanese while commuting, so I'll need to set aside real time to work on it. I have modest goals (I hope they're modest) - learn the kana, and be able to speak proper tourist Japanese with a nice accent. My plan this weekend is to copy out the first level of Pimsleur in katakana or hiragana. I know the stroke order, but it will still be slow. French - I only have eighty pages left to finish Les Mis!!! Most of the conflicts have been resolved, though there is still one villain lurking in the shadows & I'm sure he'll make a final appearance. I also started FSI again, and I do enjoy it, in a way. It really helps with listening comprehension, which is my weak point. I'm on Chapter XX our of XXIV, and I had hoped to finish it by the end of the year. Now, with Japanese back in the mix, I'm not so sure. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ - Like Cavesa wrote, Ancient Greek really does feel like a jewel that I am slowly uncovering. Pharr has been a great tool. The exercises take the Iliad and translate it into relatively straight prose, and then give you the poetic Homeric version. For the first time I'm appreciating Homer as a writer - the heroes seem so much larger than life, and the imagery so much more vivid, in the original. Spanish - I've been watching Ăguila Roja when I have free time, so I'm not totally neglecting Spanish. Middle English - I don't know if this counts as a foreign language, but I'm going to start logging it. I bought a copy of the Riverside Chaucer years ago but never read it, and I have good recordings of the Prologue, Knight's Tale, and Shipman's Tale. I'm going to read them L-R style, which should be sufficient to get the sense and style of Middle English. I'll be doing this randomly, though one day I would like to progress backwards then forwards - i.e., Middle English > Old English (just for Beowulf!) > Modern German. kanewai on 07 September 2013 |
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Yes indeed, life does seem to be a little attention-seeking toddler at times, all too ready to pull at the trouser leg and shirttails of every new optimistic study plan we dare to draw up...but hey, Tokyo, under $700, Thanksgiving...it just sounds too good!
Incidentally, I heard an interesting exotic language being sung by a local band on Magic Island today, the crowd surrounded by the usual kids' bouncy castles, picnic tents, and onolicious aromas of local grinds that waft across from a dozen generously heaped charcoal grills. I couldn't pinpoint the language despite my best efforts, so I decided to go up and ask what language everyone was chatting away in...and it turns out it was Marshallese (and this is the first time I ever heard it in person!). As I recall that you speak a closely related language to Marshallese, I thought I'd share the moment. :) Teango on 08 September 2013 |
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$635 on United, brah - take it if you can!!!
And what a nice moment. Funny, I had a similar one this morning with Kosraean at the Ala Wai Park. I knew it was probably some kind of Micronesian language (as if those colored skirts and the piles of grilled chicken wouldn't give it away), but I could not place it at all, and I finally went up and asked. kanewai on 08 September 2013 |
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I took the plunge - I'll be heading to the Tokyo / Kanto region for ten nights at the
end of November. It's time to make Japanese a priority language! I'll be poking around for a good textbook this week. I have a copy of Japanese the Manga Way, but am still tempted to add Living Language to have something a bit more structured to work through. And I finally finished Les Misérables last night - 13 months after picking up the first volume! It took me a bit longer than I thought. And it was maddening right up until the end. I started my next book over lunch today: La Vie mode d'emploi (Life, A User's Manual) by Georges Perec. I've read lots of reviews calling it a masterpiece, but I wonder if it might not be beyond my skill level. I can follow the basic plot, but I think there are a lot of word-games and puzzles within the book that might fly over my head. I've already had to slow down, and I'm looking up far more words per page than I'm used to. Meanwhile, I'm on Line 58 of the Iliad (how's that for slow?), and Agamemnon is a more of a sh*& than I remembered. Or maybe it just sounds worse in Greek. Chryses has come to ransom his daughter, and Agamemnon tells him that he won't release her until she's old, and meanwhile she will sit at her loom during the day and share his bed at night. He seriously get's what's coming to him, in my opinion. kanewai on 10 September 2013 |
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A Users Manual to Life A Users Manual
No spoilers: this is all background information!
This is a puzzle-book, and the lit-nerds all call it a masterpiece. But forty pages in I had to stop, and read up on the background of this novel to try and figure out just what was going on. This is what I learned: the novel was inspired by http://web-japan.org/museum/emaki/emaki02/emaki02.html - Genji Monogatari Emaki (The Tale of Genji Handscroll) and the drawing below by SaĂŒl Steinberg from The Art of Living (1952). Perec wanted to show the inhabitants of an apartment building in Paris all at once, like the scrolls and drawings do. He added a number of constraints to the novel, and this is where it becomes either brilliant or insane, or possible both: - Each chapter will have http://escarbille.free.fr/vme/?lmn - 42 'constraints' that must be mentioned, each constraint having ten values. - The constraints are laid out on a http://escarbille.free.fr/vme/?map - map of the building (I'm still not sure how this works). - One constraint: each chapter must contain a scene lifted out of another novel (from Agatha Christie to Moby Dick). - The chapters will land on each spot in the building once, following the http://escarbille.free.fr/vme/?txt=poly - chevalier's pattern in chess. Over all this are layers and patterns of history, myths, mysteries, and so on. I was having two problems with the book. The first, I get irritated by books that require me to do homework to understand them. I'm willing to do it, but it better be worth it in the end. And even then, I'm not that interested in untangling all the puzzles. I just want a good story. The second is with the vocabulary. There are a lot of descriptions of the rooms and furnishings themselves, and I have no idea what the difference is between a regency bateau table and a Louis XV sofa are, nor do I know what Hungarian point parquet floors are - much less what they might signify about the characters around them. Sometimes I don't even know what the words mean in English! It took me three hours to make it through the first 40 pages, but I had to re-read a lot of sections, and look up far more words than usual (especially when the author is describing clothes, furniture, and design styles). It is going to be a challenge finishing this book, but ... the more I read about the novel the more I want to tackle the actual novel ... although I will be printing out a lot of maps and charts to help me navigate it. 
 kanewai on 12 September 2013 |
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I used to love puzzles like this when I was kid (the drawings are amazing in all their intricate detail), but then again, I had more time and seemingly more patience too. I am sorely tempted to acquire a copy of the original "La Vie mode d'emploi" though, if only to exasperate my slowly developing French mind in odd spare moments when it starts to feel too comfortable... :)
Teango on 13 September 2013 |
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I'm finding I have different phases for language study. I'm sure there are technical
terms for some of these, and I might start a separate thread once I've thought through these a bit more. Cruising Mode - The plateau. It's not too hard to do some reading or studying each day, and progress is slow and steady. Some people complain about being stuck on a plateau, but I love cruising mode. I can maintain three languages here without stress, and I start to have dangerous fantasies about adding a fourth ... or fifth ... Breakthroughs - When you're on the brink of breaking through to another level,the periods where you make rapid gains & where hard work really pays off. These are the exciting periods, where I want to spend all weekend working on my language, and maybe honestly become a little anti-social. The Walls - And then there are the periods where you feel you've forgotten everything, and where nothing seems to stick no matter how hard you study. These also require a lot of energy and time to work through, but it's much less enjoyable than the energy and time you spend during the breakthrough periods. Like I wrote, I'm ok on cruising mode for multiple languages. And it's not too bad if only one language hits a wall, or enters a breakthrough period. But when they all act up at once ... it gets challenging. And that's where I'm at now: three languages in potential breakthrough periods, all competing for my attention. It's a good thing, but I don't have time for it at all. kanewai on 15 September 2013 |
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other updates:
La vie mode d'emploi has gotten easier for me to read, now that I know a couple of the patterns. The chapters are more snapshots of a life than actual stories with a plot, but I'm enjoying them. He reminds me of Italo Calvino (who, I think, was part of his literary circle. Teango, I'll loan you my copy when I'm done! The library has an English version I picked up, but I've only had to use it a few times. And ... Living Language Japanese arrived. At first glance it looks excellent, and I'm excited. The set is four books (beginning, intermediate, advanced, writing) and nice audio cds. There are links to on-line forums, flashcards, and games that I haven't checked out yet. I've seen criticisms that LL "advanced" is still "beginner." I don't care. This is a lot of material for US $40, and I find that 'slow and steady' works for me better than courses that try and give you everything too quickly. I'll start with it lightly, and dive in at the end of the month when I've finished Pimsleur II. kanewai on 15 September 2013 |
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The forces of chaos have been strong this month - it's been weeks since I've been able
to stick to a regular study regimen. I've had two little bumps that helped me get on track. I saw Hayao Miyazaki's last film, The Wind Rises, and was surprised at how much I understood. It wasn't much, but it was more than zero. And ... even better ... I was trying to see if I could budget for trip to Miami with some buddies this spring, and realized that I had enough miles to get a ticket to Europe. As much as I love my friends, I love the idea of Italy and France even more. I'm horribly disloyal sometimes. Japanese I have five weeks until I leave for Tokyo, so it's time to get serious. I'm half-way through Pimsleur II, and have started Living Language and Japanese: The Manga Way. Pimsleur is it's usual blend of useful and irritating. Living Language reminds me of a high school book. It's big and glossy, and focuses more on vocabulary than grammar. Manga isn't really a course-book, but it has been good at helping me figure out the structure of the language. So far Japanese isn't a hard language per se, but I feel like there is a huge amount to learn just to reach the beginner's level. By this point with other languages I could stumble through basic conversations. I'm still lost with Japanese, even though I can sometimes make the right sound at the right time. French I've fallen seriously behind in my Super Challenge reading. La vie mode d'emploi is enjoyable, but it's slow going - it's much easier to read books with a strong narrative. Exhibit A: I also started reading La Chartreuse de Parme (Stendhal, 1839) on my kindle ... and finished 75 pages in two days. La Chartreuse is a fun read - there's lots of action, and a lot of comic misadventure. It's a bit of a cross between Don Quixote and the Three Musketeers. I'll probably finish all 600 pages before I finish the last 200 of La vie. I'm also hoping to finish FSI XXI this weekend, and should be able to complete the last of the course before my trip. My current plan is to spend about ten days between Nice, Avignon, and Lyon; this has given me a huge boost in motivation to push for the next level. I'll be traveling solo this round, which will really help my speaking abilities. I also saw three boring French films at the Hawaiian International Film Festival. Nothing new there. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ I can understand the first 100 lines of the Iliad. I haven't had time to push on to the next section, but have been reviewing a lot on Anki. I created a deck out of all the Greek sentences and English translations from Pharr; if anyone else is using the course I've put it on Anki Web under Pharr Homeric Greek. Anki hasn't always worked for me, but in this case it's been a fantastic resource. Spanish Yeah. One day I will get back to Spanish. Italian But first, back to Italian!!! I'm starting my Spring trip with a week in Florence, and I figure I'll start 2014 with an intense focus on Italian. kanewai on 18 October 2013 |
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some venting ...
Japanese is starting to feel like Arabic, in that there doesn't seem to be any consistency in the different courses. This morning Pimsleur went through names for family members ... and they were different than the names I studied last night in Living Language. And I mean significantly different. I've had the same challenges with particles - I can't find a pattern for when to use ga, nga, ka, or wa after a subject-type noun, and I swear that the exact same sentence will use a different particle depending on the course I'm using. Meanwhile, the frequent iTunes updates are killing me. I do a lot of my listening on my phone, and it seems like everything gets rearranged with each upgrade. The best I can tell is that my phone is updating via the 'cloud,' and not my computer, and I think I have it figured out, but I lost a lot of evenings in the process. / venting. Back to work ... kanewai on 18 October 2013 |
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I'm learning more than ever that "languages that are hard" are not the same as
"languages that take a long time to learn." I'm finding the concepts in Japanese pretty straight forward. It's certainly foreign and exotic, and yet I can comprehend it's grammar. There haven't been those moments I've had with Arabic or Greek where I struggle to understand the basic core concepts. Even the confusion I've had with particles isn't that big. And yet I've never made such slow progress with a modern language! It's been three months, and I still don't know if I could handle basic conversations. I can do the drills on Pimsleur / Michel Thomas / Living Language, but still don't have the confidence to start forming my own sentences. I can pick up random phrases when I listen to people, though, so I am making some progress. I'm going to make Japanese my target language for the next month, and dedicate serious time to it. My new plan is to head to some of the old noodle & donburi shops around town, and do an hour of book-work there. I'm hoping for some synergistic effects! kanewai on 23 October 2013 |
I've been having the same reaction with my initial studies of Sgaw Karen. The grammar seems pretty simple and logical. I'm sure there are plenty of undiscovered difficulties though (beyond learning the alphabet, the tones, the fact that there are no space between words). sctroyenne on 23 October 2013 |
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French Super Challenge Update: 94%
89.1 / 100 books 98.8 / 100 films It's going to take me right up to the last week to finish my reading! I made up some ground last weekend, but my pace has slowed again this week. La vie mode d'emploi (Georges Perec, 1978) was another epic slog. I think the author must be some kind of mad genius. He went into excruciating detail about everything in one Paris apartment building - the people, the decorations, the furniture, the type of fabric on the furniture, the historic period the furniture was from, and the frikkin' cutlery - in every single room. Buried under all this were some interesting stories that I enjoyed, and I think the point was that the stories were buried and hidden behind all the extra details. I'm glad I read it, and I can agree that the author is absolutely brilliant, but I never want to read another one of his books again. I'm about a quarter through La chartreuse de Parme (Stendhal, 1839), and the hero Fabrice has only now arrived in Parme. I guess the first couple hundred pages were just a warm-up? It's a faster read than the last book, and it's nice to be reading on a kindle again. I can definitely sense that this is an older style of French; it doesn't flow as easily as more modern novels do. It's a fascinating look into the past, though! Fabrice is an Italian noble who gets caught up in revolutionary fervor, and runs off to join Napoleon's army - right when Napoleon's army is destroyed at Waterloo and the royalty in Italy reasserts itself. Fabrice's aunt (and possible lover) marries an ageing count for the money, then gets her other lover, the head of the Secret Police, to help Fabrice get a position as a bishop in the court at Parma. The Prince at Parme is paranoid, the Princess chronically depressed, and their son a bit of an idiot. It is not a Walt Disney fairy tale kingdom, at all. I don't think I've written in awhile about the mostly crappy French movies I've been watching, so here goes: Les parapluies de Cherbourg (Jacques Demy, 1964) - For forty five minutes the main characters sing to each other: je t'aime. non, je t'aime. But I love you more. No, I love you more. No no no, I love you more. I couldn't wait for tragedy to strike. L'inconnu du lac (Alain Guiraudie, 2012)- A guy witnesses a murder at a lake, and then follows the murder into the woods and has sex with him. The next hour of the movie is them having sex in the woods. There's not much plot, but there's a lot of flesh. Ne le dis Ă personne (Guillaume Canet, 2006) - A thriller. I've already forgotten the details. Judex (Georges Franju, 1963) - This was weird but fun. Judex is a masked caped crusader who fights injustice out of his secret cave. Yeah: Batman. Except Judex was a character from the old French silent film serials. Who would have guessed that he was originally French? I'd recommend drinking a lot when watching this movie. It's very over the top, and you might better appreciate the scenes when the killer nun appears if you've got a bit of a buzz. 
Les enfants du paradis (Marcel Carné, 1945) - I loved this (I don't hate all French movies) - it's a 3-hour drama about love and passion and the theater in 19th Century Paris. The cinematography alone is stunning and almost perfect. 
Le chat du rabbin (Joan Sfarr, 2011) - I enjoyed this anime, but mostly because I also enjoyed the graphic novels. It was fun to see the characters brought to life. The movie covers parts of the first two books, and then jumps to the fourth (I think; I've only read the first three) I don't know how well it would flow if you haven't read the books. 
I intend to keep reading a lot - I've barely made a dent in my bookshelf! - but I doubt I'll be watching French films as intensely after this challenge. There are a lot of French tv shows that look interesting though, and I might order some of them online. kanewai on 01 November 2013 |
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Japanese Base
Three months in of light studying (15 to 45 minutes a day, maybe five days a week), and I finally feel like I have a good base in Japanese. It's not much - the "elementary proficiency" (FSI S-1) or "breakthrough" (CERF A1) stages are a ways off. What I have now is the foundation to reach those levels. Here's what worked and what didn't: Very useful: Michel Thomas Foundation: An excellent start, gives a nice sense of the structure Pimsleur I: Can be challenging, but it really helps in developing a nice accent. Living Language, Essential: Covers less ground than the above two, but has more vocabulary and drills. Has online games. Less useful at this point: Pimsleur II: I made it half-way through, but I was just parroting the sounds without having any comprehension. I think I can come back to it now that I have a stronger base. Learning the script: It kind of helped, but it was very time consuming. I don't understand the people who say you can learn it in a weekend. My goal is to be able to talk on a tourist-level, so this wasn't really worth the effort. Japanese the Manga Way: Interesting, but it seems more designed for people who have a year or so of Japanese under their belt. I'd still recommend it for your library, as it discusses the different politeness levels, and gender differences. The other courses don't. Not useful: FSI Headstart - I'd love to see the FSI Basic Course uploaded! I haven't liked any of the Headstart series. Next up: I'll do the Michel Thomas Japanese "Advanced" and the Living Language "Intermediate" courses, and finish Pimsleur Japanese II. It's amusing how "advanced" Japanese courses are still very much at an A-1 level. FSI FAST also looks interesting, especially now that I have a decent (I think) grasp of the prosody. kanewai on 06 November 2013 |
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I make all these great plans, and then I break them.
This year was supposed to be all about French and Spanish. But then this trip to Japan unexpectedly came up, so I deferred Spanish (again) for a few months. Next year, though ... Then I had enough miles to go to Italy and France this spring. So, ok, French and Italian, then I'll get back to Spanish. And then, last week, my buddy found round trip tickets to Istanbul for $600. That, for us, is an insane price that we couldn't pass up. It is pretty much the other side of the planet - we can't even get to the US mainland for that little. Six of us so far bought tickets. And so ... my new language plans are French, Italian, and Turkish. Spanish will have to wait a bit more, and Ancient Greek is about to fade to a pleasant memory. I love combining travel and language learning, so these are all good things! It would be nice to be able to spread things out a bit, though. One of the really good things about a long-term challenge like the Super Challenge is that it has kept me focused on French through all my shifting plans. So here's the new plan: November: Focus on Japanese; French Super Challenge December: Focus on French (Finish FSI if possible. Super Challenge) Light Italian and Turkish January, February: Italian and Turkish. Light French reading. March: Hard focus on Turkish April: Hard focus on Italian and French May: Super Challenge for Spanish???? Also: If any HTLAL-ers are out there: Party on the Golden Horn in March! kanewai on 12 November 2013 |
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Kanewai, did you know that there was a fsi basic style course called http://http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Japanese-Level-T en-Book/dp/0812078659 - Mastering Japanese ?
I think that's the closest you will get to an fsi style course. I believe its still available in the ether somewhere if you know where to look. dbag on 13 November 2013 |
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I missed the FSI one! That would have been an interesting book to download.
Japanese is one of my "flirt" languages - I'll learn enough for traveling, but I'm not ready to make a long term commitment to it. kanewai on 13 November 2013 |
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Super Challenge: French Flics
Favorites Les misĂ©rables (Raymond Bernard, 1934) La rĂšgle du jeu (The Rules of the Game; Jean Renoir, 1939) Les enfants du paradis (Marcel CarnĂ©, 1945) OrphĂ©e (Jean Cocteau, 1949) Jeux interdits (Forbidden Games; RenĂ© ClĂ©ment, 1952) French Cancan (Jean Renoir, 1954) Nuit et brouillard (Alain Resnais, 1955) Ascenseur pour l'Ă©chafaud (Louis Malle, 1958) Le beau serge (Claude Chabrol,1958) Ă bout de souffle (Breathless; Jean-Luc Godard, 1960) Plein soleil (Purple Noon; RenĂ© Clement, 1960) Le bonheur (AgnĂšs Varda, 1965) Les demoiselles de Rochefort (Jacques Demy, 1967) Z (Costa-Gavras,1969) La cage aux folles (Edouard Molinaro, 1978) Le dĂźner de cons (Francis Veber, 1998) 8 femmes (François Ozon, 2002) Incendies (Denis Villeneuve, 2010) Carlos (Olivier Assayas, 2010) Polisse (MaĂŻwenn Le Besco, 2011) L'enfant (Jean-Pierre Dardenne, Luc Dardenne, 2005) Le Havre (Aki Kaurismaki, 2011) Les adieux Ă la reine (BenoĂźt Jacquot, 2012) Dans la maison (François Ozon, 2012) Gainsbourg (Vie hĂ©roĂŻque) (Joann Sfarr, 2012) TV: Kaamelott (45 episodes) The Middle Les visiteurs du soir (Marcel CarnĂ©, 1942) SĂ©raphine (Martin Provost, 2008) Ma saison prĂ©fĂ©rĂ©e (AndrĂ© TĂ©chinĂ©, 1993) Coco avant Chanel (Anne Fontaine, 2009) Le hĂ©risson (The Hedgehog; Mona Achache, 2009) Le mystĂšre Picasso (Henri-Georges Clouzot, 1956) & Guernica (Paul Ăluard, 1950) Danton (Andrzej Wajda, 1983) La grande sĂ©duction (Jean-François Pouliot, 2003) Le dernier mĂ©tro (The Last Metro; François Truffaut, 1980) Sous les toits de Paris (Under the Roofs of Paris; RenĂ© Clair, 1930) Camille Claudel (Bruno Nuytten, 1988) Le jour se lĂšve (Daybreak; Marcel CarnĂ©, 1939) Le hussard sur le toit (The Horeseman on the Roof; Jean-Paul Rappeneau, 1995) Le grand voyage (IsmaĂ«l Ferroukhi, 2004) Ne le dis Ă personne (Guillaume Canet, 2006) Judex (Georges Franju, 1963) Le chat du rabbin (Joan Sfarr, 2011) Remorques (Jean GrĂ©millon, 1941) Journal d'un curĂ© de campagne (Robert Bresson, 1951) Les quatre cents coups (François Truffaut, 1959) L'Histoire d'AdĂšle H. (François Truffaut, 1975) Masculin fĂ©minin (Jean-Luc Godard, 1966) ClĂ©o de 5 Ă 7 (AgnĂšs Varda, 1962) Les diaboliques (Henri-Georges Clouzot, 1954) PĂ©pĂ© le Moko (Julien Duivier, 1937) Lunch with Madame Murat (Mary Moody, 2007) Les Patriots (Eric Rochant, 1994) Viva LaldjĂ©rie (Nadir MoknĂšche, 2004) Holy Motors (Leos Carax, 2012) Tu seras mon fils (Gilles Legrand, 2011) Les cousins (Claude Chabrol, 1959) Potiche (François Ozon, 2011) Diva (Jean-Jacques Beineix, 1981) Trois couleurs: Rouge (Krzysztof Kieslowski, 1994) Au hasard Balthazar (Robert Bresson, 1966) La bĂȘte humaine (Jean Renoir, 1938) Ă bout portant (Fred CavayĂ©, 2010) Le silence de Lorna (Jean-Pierre Dardenne, Luc Dardenne, 2008) Nuit Blanc (FrĂ©dĂ©ric Jardin, 2011) TV: Engrenage (Spiral) - Season 1 The Bad: Dull, poorly acted, poorly written, or pretentious. Sometimes all four. La tĂȘte en friche (Jean Becker, 2010) L'arnacoeur (Heartbreaker; Pascal Chaumeil, 2010) Change moi ma vie (Change My Life; Liria BĂ©gĂ©ja, 2001) Monsieur Batignole (GĂ©rard Jugnot, 2002) Les femmes de l'ombre (Female Agents; Jean-Paul SalomĂ©, 2008) Un hĂ©ros trĂšs discret (A Self Made Hero; Jacques Audiard, 1996) Une vie de chat (A Cat in Paris, Jean-Loup Felicioli, 2010) Angel-A (Luc Besson, 2007) La nuit AmĂ©ricaine (Day for Night; François Truffaut, 1973) Les parapluies de Cherbourg (Jacques Demy, 1964) L'inconnu du lac (Alain Guiraudie, 2012) ThĂ©rĂšse Desqueyroux (Claude Miller, 2012) Les femmes du 6Ăšme Ă©tage (Philippe le Guay, 2010) De rouille et d'os (Jacques Audliard, 2012) Monsieur Lazhar (Philippe Falardeau, 2011) Jules et Jim (François Truffaut, 1962) Trois couleurs: Bleu (Krzysztof Kieslowski, 1993) So Bad I Didn't Finish La fille du RER (AndrĂ© TĂ©chinĂ©, 2010) Le carrosse d'or (Jean Renoir, 1954) L'illusionniste (Sylvain Chomet, 2010) De battre mon couer s'est arrete (Jacques Audiard, 2005) Garcon stupide (Lionel Baier, 2004) Les poupĂ©es russes (CĂ©dric Klapisch, 2005) Un prophĂšte (Jacques Audiard, 2009) Parlez-moi de la pluie (AgnĂšs Jaoui, 2008) La mome (Olivier Dahan, 2007) Poupoupidou (Nobody Else But You; GĂ©rald Hustache-Mathieu, 2011) Un Ă©tĂ© Ă La Goulette (Ferid Boughedir, 1996) La graine et le moulet (The Secret of the Grain; Abdel Kechiche, 2007). Coup de torchon (Bertrand Tavernier, 1981) Zazie dans le mĂ©tro (Louis Malle, 1960) Qui ĂȘtes-vous, Polly Maggoo? (William Klein, 1966) Au revoir les enfants (Louis Malle, 1987) Le fabuleux destin d'AmĂ©lie Poulain (Jean-Pierre Jeunet, 2001) L'armĂ©e des ombres (Jean-Pierre Melville, 1969) Et Dieu ... crĂ©a la femme (Roger Vadim, 1957) La nuit de Varennes (Ettore Scola, 1982) Alphaville (Jean Luc-Godard. 1965) Yeah. I could not stand AmĂ©lie, and I tried twice. I know people love this movie, so maybe you should read this list upside down, and avoid the flics I liked and start with the ones I didn't! kanewai on 13 November 2013 |
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Not only am I surprised that you hated Amelie, but Un prophete and De battre mon coeur s'est arrete also?!!?
sillygoose1 on 13 November 2013 |
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I tried with Amelie, I just couldn't get into it. I actually liked it both times in the
beginning, but could never finish it. As for Jacques Audiard's movies ... I don't like the way he fetishizes violence, and have passionately hated everything he's done - and only realized afterwards that they were all his. kanewai on 13 November 2013 |
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The Problem with Pimsleur
Japanese I like Pimsleur, but sometimes it just makes me want to scream. Here's Japanese II, Lesson 2: This is Bill. Billu san des. Got it. Nice to meet you. Hajimemashite. I remember this. Unfortunately I have to go. ainikushitsureishinakerabanaranaendes. WTF????? What kills me is that last phrase contains grammar points that are not explained at all. I recognize "nae n des" from skimming ahead in another book, and can guess that "shinakeraba" must be some new tense of "to do," though it isn't covered in any of my beginning textbooks. Grr. Anyways, I've hit Book 2 of Living Language, and have re-started Pimsleur II from the beginning - I don't think I retained much from my first pass. Français - I liked Stendhal in the beginning, but I quickly lost interest. I read that he wrote Le chartreuse de Parme in six or seven weeks ... and it shows. After a great first couple chapters set during the Battle of Waterloo the book began jumping all over the place. I'm not going to finish it. I'm currently 3/4 of the way through PĂȘcheur d'Islande, by Pierre Loti (1886). It's a sad, romantic story set in the fishing villages of Brittany - of men who spend the season fishing off the coast of Iceland & haven't seen France in the summer since they were children, and the women who stay behind, never knowing who will return and who will be lost at sea. I like Loti's writing style a lot - the novel feels like an impressionist painting in words. I took a look at an English edition in the library, and the translation was awful. The fishermen all spoke like pirates in a budget movie ... they actually say "ahoy, matey" to each other. This is a great example of a book that needs to be read in French (or that needs a modern translation!). It's also short, which is nice. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ - No action. Español - I started watching Ăguila Roja again. I might be able to finish the film part of my half-super challenge. The reading part will only be possible of I finish all of my French by this month, which is unlikely. TĂŒrkçe - I've started organizing my materials. My base will by Pimsleur I, the FSI course, and my old Teach Yourself (I don't think it's been updated since I bought it). I was tempted by Assimil's Le Turc, but it's $110, and I don't trust Assimil with non-Romance or non-Germanic languages, so I'm going to pass on that one. I'm surprised that there's no Michel Thomas or Living Language Turkish course! Though I think I already have plenty to work with. And I'm looking forward to working with Turkish again; it's been awhile, and I enjoyed the language the last round. Italiano - I will definitely order Assimil's Italian with Ease, though! I felt like I learned Italian quickly the last round, so I think Assimil + a Michel Thomas review might be enough. kanewai on 14 November 2013 |
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L'Ă©cume des jours
I leave for Tokyo in seven days, and I meant to make this a Japanese weekend. Instead, it's been totally Frenchie. It's as if trying to focus on a new language has the side effect of invigorating the others. I even read some Greek this morning, for this first time in six weeks. But it's really been all about the French. I finished PĂȘcheur d'Islande, and would easily recommend this to other language learners. Pierre Loti was a naval officer, and set his novels in exotic locations. He doesn't seem to popular now, and I would have never heard of him if a friend hadn't taken me to watch the sunset from the Pierre Loti CafĂ© in Ä°stanbul. Since then, I've always been curious about him ... not everyone gets a hill and cafĂ© named after them! 
Next up: L'Ă©cume des jours (Boris Vian, 1946), a romance set in the age of jazz and science-fiction. I want to read more modern fiction, although it means reading it the old-fashioned way: a physical book, rather than a kindle. I thought this would be easy with L'Ă©cume, but things got a little surreal in the third chapter. As far as I can tell, an attendant at the skating rink had the head of a pigeon, and one of the skaters laid an egg while doing a spin. And I'm pretty sure this wasn't a metaphor. I've heard great things about this book, but the surrealism is going to be a challenge - I won't be able to understand new words from context if the context isn't based on anything in the real world. I'm looking up everything in the dictionary. It's a fun book, though. The characters are all obsessed with American jazz, and so I've started playing the music they discuss while I'm reading the chapter. Right now my "soundtrack" to L'Ă©cume is Duke Ellington's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YKWKIfEN8Y - Chloe (Song of the Swamp) I also learned it's a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVFotvfZZxY - movie directed by Michael Gondry (Eternal Sunshine!), and starring Audrey Tatou and Romain Duris. I really, really, hope it's good - I loved both of them in their early movies, but haven't liked much of their work at all lately. 
And finally ... I found a site that streams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3fX_JzAujE - Les revenants . Two episodes in, and I'm hooked. Also, there have been a few moments that I forgot that I was watching it in French. I was following it without thinking, and only snapped out of it when one of the teenage girls started talking & I couldn't understand her slang. I'll get back to my Japanese tomorrow. Maybe. kanewai on 17 November 2013 |
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Tokyo Countdown
Seven hours until I hop on the bus to the airport, and (as usual before a trip) I'm too wired to sleep. I've put a fair amount of time into studying Japanese, but still feel like I'm only half way to beginner level. I tried to run through some imaginary conversations in my mind, and realized how many basic, little things I still didn't know. I'll be able to order food, and navigate on the trains, but my skills won't go much beyond that. I don't quite know why this is. Japanese isn't hard, really. I understand the grammatical concepts so far. It's just really different. But Turkish was also different, and had more complex concepts for me to grasp, yet it took less time. We'll see how I do soon! My travelling partner speaks Japanese, so it's not critical that I speak. It will be weird being the one needed help though - usually I'm the one who does the translating. kanewai on 23 November 2013 |
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The Problem with Pimsleur
Japan Trip Report I did moderately well with Japanese. It took my a few days to get the accent right, but after that could handle simple sentences (Where am I? Where am I going? and I want to eat that. All the important things in life). This helped immensely - I seem to end up a lot in areas where no one spoke English. I wasn't even close to being able to carry on even a simple conversation, but I could cover basic needs. In retrospect, I would have done better to focus more heavily on the Living Language course, and not so much on the last couple Michel Thomas courses. I like them, but I wasn't ready to use complicated grammar in real life. My traveling partner used to speak Japanese for work, and it was interesting: his vocabulary was huge, but his grammar was atrocious. I was trying to use the correct case endings, and he declared that I was making things too hard, and that he would just mumble them. People were friendly, though, and very quick to switch from English to Japanese when they thought I understood. I also noticed that people spoke in a much more "sing song" voice than I hear on the tapes. I remember the French did this too. My traveling partner tended to speak in a gruff style, like someone from the old samurai movies. I felt that I was getting a much nicer reception with my limited, but polite, Japanese than he was with his rougher style. There were some bumps. Once I thought I had asked for "two more glasses (of beer)" (mo nihai o kudasai) , the waitress smiled and bowed, and I thought: I'm doing pretty well! I was all proud of myself, until she brought out a single whiskey cocktail. I'm still not sure where I went wrong with that one. Français One of the things I love about long plane rides is that I can bury myself in a good book for hours on end. I've caught up with my Super Challenge, and have less than 100 pages to go. I'll actually finish! L'Ă©cume des jours was really good. The surrealism, I think, helped the author deal with some difficult issues. I also restarted and finished Le PĂšre Goriot. Last year I quit half way through. I thought it was too dry and too simple, and I took the other Balzac books off my reading list. But what a difference a year makes - this round wasn't as difficult, and the story seemed so much more exciting and dramatic. Balzac is now back on my list. I want to see what happens next, especially with the cynical criminal mastermind Vautrin. I'm currently reading Voyage au but de la nuit (Louis-Ferdinand CĂ©line, 1932). This, so far, might be one of the most intense and angry anti-war books I've ever read. It's also wonderfully obscene - I don't even recognize half the words he uses to describe his officers, but I know that I probably shouldn't use them in polite company. The story is fast paced: a 20-year old youth is drafted, and decides he'd rather live free than die in the mud. In the first 100 pages he's gone from the killing fields at Flanders to a Paris hospital to a mental hospital to an experimental neurology clinic. I also started on Lesson XXII of FSI. I'll do another lesson in Feb, and the last one in April. It's helped to space them out like this, even though it's been a 2- year process. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ - No action. Español I'm still watching episodes ofĂguila Roja, and just learned that season 2 is out for Isabel. This will be enough, I think, to keep the language alive until I can get back to properly focusing on it. I thought I might finish the film part of the half challenge, but I'd have to watch four movies a week. It won't happen. TĂŒrkçe I made copies of all my materials for the five of us going to Ä°stanbul. They say they want a study group, and we have a couple friends who are fluent ... we'll see who actually sticks with it. I started Pimsleur, and it's been pleasant to revisit Turkish again! I can't recall much on my own, but as soon as I hear a word it comes back to me. I feel like I'm re-visiting an old friend. I liked Turkish a lot, and loved Turkey itself. The two are probably combined. It's nice to be able to dive right back in, rather than having to struggle with the new concepts like vowel harmony and agglutination. I've posted two or three times that I didn't like Assimil for non-European languages, and that I didn't like the Turkish speakers on Assimil. Then I found a copy of Le Turc for $40 on Amazon. And ordered it. I find that I am constantly changing my mind with language learning. Italiano - I hope to start sometime mid January. _______________________________________________________ ;  My plan for the next four months is to work in shifts. At any one time I'll have FSI for one language, an audio course for the second language, and Assimil for the third language. Each three weeks or so I'll rotate. I'm hoping this way will help me balance three languages at once without burning out or becoming too compulsive. I'd prefer to work on one language at once, but I study some languages just for travel, and the economics of living so far away from everything means that me travel is always clustered in the low season: October / November and March / April. And that means that my studying tends to cluster too. The good news is that I now have somewhat of a base in most of my life-time target languages! Any studying from here on out will be building on those bases, which will be pleasant. My current lifetime goals: Fluency French Spanish Chuukese - Micronesian (though it's mostly faded, and I have no plans to re-up it) "Travel Languages" - these will come and go depending on my wanders Arabic Turkish Indonesian Italian Japanese Little to no experience, but maybe one day: Greek, Thai, Portuguese, Hindi, Farsi (if the US and Iran ever find peace) ... who knows, it's a big world Reading Only Ancient Greek Latin One day: German Perhaps one day: Old English, Russian That is a ridiculously long list, but I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has one like it. kanewai on 07 December 2013 |
I saw that! Congratulations on your progress. The thing that amazed me towards the end was how much reading I could get done if I really set aside some hours and focused. A language learner is somebody who never needs to fear a plane flight or 10 minutes in line, and who has an excuse to watch all the TV and read all the comic books they'd like. :-) emk on 07 December 2013 |
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Thanks for the film list, and the posts on L'Ă©cume des jours, Kanewai. I visited Librairie l'Ă©cume des
jours in Montreal, and later wondered about the origin of its name. Your "shift work" plan sounds interesting. - Looking forward to following your continued progress in 2014! songlines on 07 December 2013 |
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I forgot to mention http://www.timeout.jp/en/tokyo/venue/469/Kinokuniya-Bookstor e -
Kinokuniya in Tokyo - a wonderful seven-story bookstore, and the top floor is all foreign-language books, most at a better price than I can find online. We can add this to the list of the world's great bookstores.
likely to walk the 20" to the grocery store than bike or drive when I have a tape or podcast I'm working through. I've tried doing language drills on the treadmill, but that was too mental.
before that never quite worked in the real world ... we'll see! _____________________________________________ FSI, as usual, became challenging by the third tape in the lesson. I can usually manage the first couple sections of each chapter using audio only, and then it gets hard. Here's a sample exercise: Instructeur: Il y a longtemps qu'on ne s'occupe plus de ça. Etudiant: On ne s'occupe plus de ça depuis longtemps. Instructeur: Nous avons repris les relations diplomatiques avec ce pays-là il y a deux ans. Etudiant: Nous avons des relations diplomatiques avec ce pays-là depuis deux ans. I can read these with close to 100% comprehension, but when I try to do them using only audio my accuracy plummets completely. So I'm slowing down. I go through the section reading only. Then I try doing them as written exercises - and I find that I make a lot of little mistakes that are easy to gloss over when speaking. The third or fourth round I'll listen to the tapes again. This is probably good - I need to slow down and focus on the details. And as much as I love using native materials, my experiences with my travel partner in Japan (huge vocabulary, bad grammar) convinced me that we, as language learners, really do need to go back and actively study from time to time. kanewai on 10 December 2013 |
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Funny reading about L'Ă©cume des jours. After I read it I told my French friend about it
and the fact that there was about to be a movie who had never read it. Later he said he was at the movies and saw a trailer for it and he said, "On n'a rien compris." And going back a few posts, it's kind of a shame that language courses feel the need to teach "How are you?" right off the bat. On one hand, it is a really essential phrase to learn. But on the other hand, it is often pretty grammatically over the learner's head for a good long while, there are usually a ton of responses to the question but the ones they teach you aren't necessarily used that often, and in the case of Irish it can intimidate you from learning the language (each dialect has very different ways of asking and it would give you the impression from the get go that the different dialects of Irish are really different languages, which isn't the case once you delve further into it). sctroyenne on 10 December 2013 |
It's ironic, yeah? Though it differs by language. Japanese was definitely like that, and it was discouraging. But Arabic had the opposite effect: the greetings were so poetic that it inspired me to want to learn more (the standard morning greeting and response is: sabah al-khair / sabah al-noor ... 'morning of goodness' / 'morning of light'). kanewai on 12 December 2013 |
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First Set
I just finished my first three-week set. My idea is that every three weeks I'll rotate methods between my languages. I'm hoping this will let me move forward on multiple fronts without triggering burn out. It should also provide a nice pattern of hard and easy weeks. I trained with an Olympic coach once*, and he would have us work in similar three week cycles. There'd be an easy week, a medium week, then a hard week. Then you'd start the cycle again, but each level would be elevated (so the 'easy' week would still be the easiest of that set, but harder than the previous 'easy' week). It really worked. We'll see if I can apply it to my mind. * I was just training for a neighborhood team, not the actual games. But I did get to see the Olympic athletes up close. Who were so pretty. So very pretty. But I digress. Français - My main focus was on FSI Chapter XXII. As usual, the first couple lessons were relatively easy, and then it got hard real fast. It took me the whole three weeks to finish. A lot of FSI now is far beyond my speaking level, but it's helping a lot with my comprehension. I finished the Super Challenge, and then some. I watched a few more episodes of Les Revenants and Kaamelott, both of which are getting easier to understand. Like others have noted, French tv is much easier to understand than French movies. And I'm about 3/4 of the way through Voyage au but de la nuit. The main character has evolved from being an innocent victim of evil to an actively misanthropic doctor to the poor in Paris. TĂŒrkçe - I finished Pimsleur I. There wasn't much that was new for me, though I needed this course to reactivate it. I was able to do two lessons a day, and only had to repeat two lessons towards the end. Turkish is an enjoyable language; I'm glad to be studying it again. Italiano - not yet Second Set I'll finish Voyage and Les Revenants for French, work on FSI or Teach Yourself for Turkish, and re-start Pimsleur with Italian. I think it's too early for Italian, honestly - I'd rather get a bit more Turkish under my belt - but I have free time during my commute. This will be the test to see if I can balance three languages. If my Assimil ever arrives for Turkish I'll start that too. Others ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ - I can actually still read most of the first 100 lines of the Iliad. I'm keeping Greek my books on the shelf, ready, just in case I have some free moments and feel inspired. Español - I'm watching Ăguila Roja when I have the time, mostly just to keep the language alive until I can get back to it. I'll be shadowing the TAC 14 group, though I don't want to commit just yet. ____________________________________________ Meanwhile, it looks like most of the Romantics have moved on to TAC 14s already. I might keep the log title the same; I kind of like it. kanewai on 24 December 2013 |
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TAC 2014
Français Team Les amis du Capitain Tasty Onions I'll be in France for 11 days this Spring, traveling solo. I'm hoping to use this as a chance to bump my speaking abilities up a notch. I won't do a lot of formal study, although I hope to finish FSI (two chapters left), and will probably do a review of Pimsleur IV before I go. Otherwise, my plan is to continue reading a lot, and watching French tv. I think I'm done with French movies for awhile. At the top of my list: Romans La condition humaine. AndrĂ© Malraux, 1933. Vendredi ou les limbes du pacifique. Michel Tournier,1967. Le soulier de satin, Paul Claudel. 1929. L'oeuvre au noir, Marguerite Yourcenar 1968. AurĂ©lien, Louis Aragon, 1944. A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs, Marcel Proust, 1923. Illusions Perdues, Balzac, 1843. Bandes dessinĂ©es Pinocchio. Winshluss (2008) L'AmĂ©rique ou Le Disparu, RĂ©al Godbout. 2013 Siegfried T3: Le crĂ©puscule des dieux, Alex Alice. 2011 Television Les revenants, Season 2 - One day, the dead start to return to a small mountain town, not aware that they're dead, or that time has passed. Season 2 is supposed to start in 2014; I hope I can stream it. Kaamelott, Season 2 - Sketch comedy set in the days Arthur, roi de Bretagne. Un village français - I hear a lot of good things about this show. Maison close - Life in a 19th Century Parisian brothel. Español Team Lobos Observer Every year I say that it's time to bump my Spanish up to B2. Will I do it this year? Time will tell. A lot depends on whether I get motivated to continue with Italian once I'm on a roll. I've learned to balance multiple languages, but French and Italian seem to occupy the same mental space in my head. I seem to be able to do one or the other, but never both at the same time. Right now my goal is to watch a couple tv shows, at least one episode per week. Come May I'll have to make the decision: Super Challenge in Spanish or not. Until then, there are a lot of shows on Drama Fever that I'll follow: La fuga, Isabel Season 2, Ăguila Roja, Mujeres Asesinas, Montecristo ... Drama Fever has been great for bringing Argentine and Spanish shows to the US. TĂŒrkçe Team YĂŒrĂŒkler I finished Pimsleur I already, and will spend the next couple months with Assimil, Teach Yourself, and FSI. This is all in preparation for a trip to Ä°stanbul in March. After that, who knows? I only know two ways that work for me to push past the basic A2 level. One is through immersion. The second is through reading massive amounts of literature and graphic novels. I'm not moving to Turkey (unless anyone out there has a good lead on jobs!), and I'm not that familiar with Turkish literature beyond Orhan Pamuk. Maybe there's a new world out there for me to discover. Italiano - Team Italiano Stalker I studied some Italian a couple years ago for a trip to Rome, and loved the rhythms of the language. I have another trip to Florence for a week this Spring, so I'll be trying to refresh the language & hopefully progress a bit further in it. My initial resources will be FSI FAST and Pimsleur. Sometime in January I'll have to make the choice about how to proceed. Option 1, I'll go with a vocabulary-heavy course like Living Language (I loved their new Japanese course), and just focus on being a good tourist. Option 2, I'll go with Assimil and aim for a deeper understanding of the language, with the intent of continuing on past my travels. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ - No TAC. I'll work in Ancient Greek when I can. I put so much work into it, but still have so far to go. So very far. ____________________________________________ kanewai on 24 December 2013 |
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2.1 I had a pretty intensive language learning week. My main focus this 3-week
set is Turkish. I've recovered most (but not all) of what I had learned before, and am now moving into new territory. Français Team Triomphe I finished Les revenants, which was fantastic, and tried to start Maison close. I had a hard time following the dialogue of Maison. I'll give it a second chance, but I'm not sure that it's even a show I'd like. I'm also having mixed feelings about Voyage au but de la nuit. The first half was a stunning condemnation of war, colonization, and industrialization. It's an angry book, but angry about things that are worth being angry about. In the second half the author extends his rage to everything. It's still a fascinating book, but my empathy for the main character has plummeted. He's gone from being an innocent youth to a nasty and misanthropic adult. Español Team Lobo I'm running out of patience with all the plot holes in Ăguila Roja! I want to like this show, but the writing is too lazy for me & a lot of the mini-dramas way too predictable. Five minutes in to episode 8 and I knew that 1) the servants were going to lose the Marquessa's emeralds, that 2) there will be some wacky hijinks, and 3) they will recover them at the last minute. Meanwhile, Red Eagle seems to be able to magically appear and disappear at will, and no one knows who he is ... even though his sidekick never wears a mask. Does anyone know if it gets better - or is this pretty much the template for the rest of the show? TĂŒrkçe Team YĂŒrĂŒkler FSI to Lesson 10, Assimil to Lesson 5. This week I finally feel like I'm diving into the meat of Turkish. FSI has about 25 verbs in rotation at this point, & it's been more rewarding than other programs that use a more limited vocabulary. So far it's been a lot of repetition and simple substitution drills, so it's been easy to move through at a steady pace. Assimil's Le Turc has been a nice surprise, so far. I haven't really liked Assimil for non Indo-European languages, and only bought this one because it's on sale. So far the dialogues have a more relaxed feel than FSI, Pimsleur, or TY, so it provides a nice contrast. It has also already introduced some concepts I haven't seen before. It works for me, but I can't imagine how someone who is new to Turkish would handle so much info right from the beginning. I'll post some sample dialogues as soon as I get the chance. Italiano - Team Italiano Pimsleur I to Lesson 15. I was hoping that I would remember enough that I could jump right into Pimsleur II, but that was hopeless. I've been doubling up instead on Pimsleur I, doing one lesson on the way to work and one on the ride home. It's been irritating. The first ten lessons were endless combinations of 'do you want to eat something' and 'would you like to eat something.' The last five have been the same sentences, but with numbers and time added in. I make a lot of mistakes, mostly because I am so bored with it. I liked Pimsleur Italian two years ago ... hopefully the love will kick back in! I need to remind myself that this is just a warm-up, and that I'll start studying for real in a few weeks. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ - No action ____________________________________________ kanewai on 30 December 2013 |
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If you need help with greek just ask.
Your notes on the turkish courses are very helpful. Do you suppose that TY works better combined with assimil? On the other hand, you say that beginners may find the combination too much. I'll stick to TY for now, but I'll be following your interesting observations very closely. renaissancemedi on 30 December 2013 |
HmmmâŠthis is disappointing. I was planning on watching Ăguila Roja once we're finished with Isabel season 2. Now I'm rethinking that! Stelle on 30 December 2013 |
me, TY is a complete course, but it could use more audio and exercises. I'd combine it with something, though it's too early to tell if Assimil or FSI, or one of the textbooks people have mentioned, is the better choice. FSI is free, though, so I'd check that out first! I've been downloading the pdf's to an old iPad, and that works great. I tried pdf's on the kindle, but it wasn't a good match. kanewai on 31 December 2013 |
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Random late-night thoughts ...
In the past I've probably put the same amount of time into Turkish and Italian. Italian came fast and easy. I had background in Latin, Spanish, and French, so learning Italian was pure joy. Turkish was work, and a lot of the concepts were initially hard. After studying Turkish I spent three weeks in Turkey, and later went back for 2 weeks. After Italian I spent one week in Rome. And what a difference even that little amount of immersion made! Today Turkish is coming back quickly. It's like visiting an old friend. I listen to my tapes, and I think: oh yeah, I remember how that works! Meanwhile, Italian is coming back slowly, and even with Pimsleur I there are significant chunks that feel like I'm learning for the first time. At work we talk about the ideal amount of time for a vacation (it's one of the things you really analyze when you're on a remote island!). Three days is fun, but there's not much added benefit to four days ... it's not until you hit a week that the vacation enters the next level. I'm wondering if language immersion doesn't work the same way. My current theory: Three days: Not enough time to settle into the language. Ten days: You can immerse yourself into the language. Three weeks: You can start to internalize the language Two to three months: You become comfortable with the language. One day I'll put this to the test. When I turn 50 (I still have a couple years) I hope to be comfortable with five languages (Italian, Spanish, French, Turkish, Arabic) and to take a year off and spend time perfecting them while on the road. __________________________________________ I'm also seeing the benefit of using multiple sources. For Turkish, the FSI course has had the best explanation of vowel harmony that I've seen yet. And then it had an excellent section on the various sounds that 'Ä' has (Lesson 10). That alone made the course worthwhile. But the next chapter contained a painfully academic, and confusing, description of verbs in the -ir form. I understood nothing, and I'm hoping that Assimil or Teach Yourself will come to the rescue. __________________________________________ Pimsleur is great for one round, but repeating Pimsleur sucks. I want to reach a level with Italian so that I never have to go back to this level. I think this might be different at higher levels. Pimsleur IV for Spanish and French were fine, and I would totally repeat them to re-activate my speaking skills. At least, I think I would. I'll find out soon enough. kanewai on 31 December 2013 |
OK, brother, I will! Though I was attempting Homeric Greek. Does the offer still stand? I'm hoping that I'll have time this summer to revisit it. kanewai on 31 December 2013 |
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The offer still stands, although I am no expert.
I have to say, I am a sister rather than a brother :) I have a homeric name, Penelope. renaissancemedi on 31 December 2013 |
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We're fellow members of the Italian team and I am the Godmother for the French team, so good luck with
your studies ! Et meilleurs vĆux pour le TAC 2014! agantik on 31 December 2013 |
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Good luck and pomaikaʻi in 2014, brah! These three-week sets sound like a great approach to studying multiple languages (and also remind me that I need to sort out my gym schedule for next year). It was interesting to read your comment about noticing the Japanese "sing-song" intonation during your recent visit to Tokyo. I've been studying various intonational systems over the past semester, and was similarly fascinated to learn how languages like Japanese and Korean use complex "sing-song" pitch-accents to mark prominence and grouping (and French is even more bizarre in this respect!).
Teango on 31 December 2013 |
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Good luck in 2014, kanewai! It's great to read of your language adventures :-)
Cavesa on 02 January 2014 |
My bad. Î”Ï ÏÏ ÏÎčÏÎŒÎÎœÎż ÏÎż ÎœÎÎż ÎÏÎżÏ, ΠηΜΔλÏÏη! I also just realized that your screen name is renaissancemedi, and not renaissancemedici. I had pictured you (or your avatar) as some delightfully evil / somewhat dangerous Florentine prince.
I think I've gained about three pounds for every language I've studied this year. It adds up. I'll see you at the gym.
I'd still give it a try - there are five seasons, so obviously a lot of people like it. And I want to like it ... sometimes it's really good, and sometimes it's just stupid. I keep hoping that, in some back room, the good writers will stage a coup and drive the bad writers out of the studio. Other shows have gotten much better their second season!
Did I accidentally delete this post? I swear I read a recommendation from her for Schoenhof's Foreign Books this morning, and came back just now to thank her. Anyway, I found Le Turc at Adler's Foreign Books for a great price, but noticed that Schoenhof's has Assimil Italian for $28. That was a find! kanewai on 02 January 2014 |
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It was supposed to be renaissancemedici (you got it right!), but that had more letters than I was allowed. Think Machiavelli rather than Cesare :)
renaissancemedi on 02 January 2014 |
How far have you gotten with it? It gets really weird in spots, and sometimes it seems to lose the whole original storyline. I've watched all five seasons, and I think overall it's a good show. The end of season five sucks, though. Just to warn you! :D
Oh, yep. I deleted it. I had forgotten that you already mentioned a few pages back that you tried the Assimil course, and I thought you might already have it. (And I felt a little stupid for forgetting what you wrote before, especially since your blog is one of the few I read all the time. LOL) Plus, when I looked, none of the Assimil Turc books were in stock. When they're out of stock, it takes *forever* to get your order. Once it took three months for something I ordered. Now, if you're not in a hurry, that's okay (I suppose), but I really don't like recommending a place when I know how bad their service is for that kind of thing. Kerrie on 02 January 2014 |
Three pounds of pure, lean, language muscle, mate! This year I get the feeling we'll be lifting even more books, and making all kind o' gains. ;) Teango on 04 January 2014 |
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TAC 2014 - All the new logs are a bit overwhelming! I counted 66 logs between the four teams I'm following ... though I think only half have posted anything. I'm reading as people post, though I haven't been commenting as much.
Second Set It's Thursday, but I've already met most of my goals for this three-week set. I feel like I've earned a free weekend. Before I used to aim high ... my main goal was "do as much as you can." That's not really sustainable. What I'm trying to do now is to set a schedule that's a little hard, but with a pace that is achievable. My goals are: Pimsleur - one level per 21 days. I do this during my commute. Assimil - six lessons per week FSI - varies. I can work on FSI at the coffee shop after work and before the gym. Reading - 50 pages / week (less than the Super Challenge pace, at least for now) And because I love excel: 
Français I'm really enjoying http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKOZoAdhHso - Real Humans . I don't usually like dubbed films - I get thrown by the disconnect between what I hear and what I see. I don't seem to have that problem with French dubbed over Swedish. (The clip is in Swedish with English subtitles; I wish I could find this version in the US.) I finished Voyage au but de la nuit. There was a scene in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eegoZpxQCzc - Dans la maison where Kristin Scott Thomas knocks out her intellectual husband with a copy of that book. I can seriously relate. It's a powerful novel, but the narrator evolves from being an innocent victim to an ugly misanthrope. Here's a sample from the English translation: People cling to their rotten memories, to all their misfortunes, and you can't pry them loose. These things keep them busy. They avenge themselves for the injustice of the present by smearing the future inside them with this shit. They're cowards deep down, and just. That's their nature. CĂ©line later became a collaborationist, and it's easy to see the early roots of fascism in his writing. I need a does of beauty after wallowing in the mud, so I'm heading back to Proust. I started A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs two days ago, and it's nice to slow down and immerse myself again in his sensual world. TĂŒrkçe I finished the first fifteen chapters of the FSI course. It's really well done, and moves at a nice, steady pace. Assimil, meanwhile, has been challenging. I like it, but it takes me much longer to work through a lesson, even passively, than other Assimil courses have. Italiano Pimsleur got a little bit better after lesson 15, and started feeling like a real course after lesson 20. I finished this morning, so I have a couple days break from Italian before I start the enxt round. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ - flipped through the Iliad. Español - nada Third Set This Sunday I rotate again. I'll start Pimsleur IV for French (should be easy), FSI FAST for Italian (should be easy), and continue with Assimil for Turkish. This won't be a particularly challenging set. _______________________________________________________ I was inspired by an earlier post by Prof Arguelles to start tracking my studying over time. I saw that people were posting their sheets in another thread, but I can't find that thread now. Here's my yearly log - it's more colorful and visual, but contains less data than the professor's. The dotted sections are where I used mostly native materials. 
kanewai on 09 January 2014 |
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Here are two sample lessons from my Turkish textbooks. Both have copious footnotes
attached, but I left out those. I find the FSI approach much easier to use and understand. I like how it builds up each word or phrase piece by piece before placing it in a full sentence. Each dialogue is followed by lots of simple drills on the day's target grammar. I can finish a lesson in two to three 30" study sessions. The Assimil method is difficult for agglutinative languages - as you can see the literal translations are challenging to decipher! I really have to relax and just go with the flow of the conversations; when I try to understand it literally my brain quits on me & refuses to go on. The big advantage to Assimil is that it presents a rounder, more complete approach to the language. I also find that it's useful to study a target language via a second language - I'm less likely to always be 'translating back to English' in my mind. It is also much more entertaining than the drier FSI approach. I don't like the grammar explanations in either course. For this, I'll use my old Teach Yourself book. FSI Unit 6 Dialog: 'Is There a Restaurant?' bu - this bura - this place buralarda - in these places (hereabouts) var - existent (there is) var mı - is there? Buralarda lokanta var mı? Is there [a] restaurant around here? Var, efendim. [Yes] there is, (sir). gitmek - to go git - go! gidiniz - go! sol - left; lefthand DoÄru gidiniz. Sol tarafta. Go straight ahead; [it's] on the left. acaba - (I) wonder posta - mail postahane - post office Acaba postahane nerede?   I wonder where the post office is? saÄa - to [the] right dönmek - to turn, return dön - turn dönĂŒnĂŒz - turn! (polite) ilk - first bĂŒyĂŒk - gig, adult, grown up bina - building SaÄa dönĂŒnĂŒz, ilk bĂŒyĂŒk bina. Turn to the right [and it's] the first big building. ____________________________________________________________ __ Assimil Le Turc, Lesson 8 (partial) 5. Bir kahvede beyler sohbet ediyorlar. 6. Acaba geceleri pebcere açık mı yatmalı, kapalı mı? 7. Yandaki masadan bir adam söze karıĆıyor: 8. Açik pencere her zaman iyidir. 9. Siz her halde doktorsunuz. 10. Hayır, hırsızım. 5. Dans un cafĂ© des messieurs tiennent une conversation: (Un cafĂ©-dans messieurs-les conversations font) 6. Voyons, la nuit vaut-il mieux dormir la fenĂȘtre ouverte ou fermĂ©e? (Est-ce-que nuits-les fenĂȘtre ouverte mı coucher-il-faut fermĂ©e mı?) 7. Un homee qui se trouve Ă une table voisine intervient: (CĂŽtĂ©-dans-qui-[est] table-de un homme parole-Ă [se]-mĂȘle) 8. La fenĂȘtre ouvert, c'est toujours bien. (Ouverte fenĂȘtre tout temps bon-est) 9. Voue ĂȘtes mĂ©decin probablement? (Vous toute Ă©ventualitĂ©-dans docteur-vous-ĂȘtes?) 10. Non, je suis cambriouleur. (Non cambrioleur-je suis.) My quick semi-literal translation: 5. In a cafe men are having a conversation. 6. I wonder - at night is it better to have the windows open to sleep, or closed? 7. Next to them at a table a man interrupts the conversation. 8. Open the windows whenever it is nice. 9. You must be a doctor? 10. No, a thief. kanewai on 10 January 2014 |
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It seems FSI is a great course for Turkish. I know we've talked about comparing courses before, but would you say FSI or TY (Lewis) is better for a complete beginner? I am aware of the audio thing with TY, but it seems like a solid and comprehensive course I may finish in a relatively short amount of time. FSI on the other hand I like very much, but somehow it takes too long, and it is made for a class, teacher etc.
Since you've had experience with both, after I finish TY do you think my grammar will be at a good level? Dialogue and vocabulary you can always get afterwards, but the grammar for me is essential. I don't want to use more than one courses as a beginner, and I could use the comparison. renaissancemedi on 11 January 2014 |
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I've actually found that I do better with two or three courses at a time as a beginner.
Each course hits from a different angle, yeah? TY is great, but it's like a full year's course in 12 lessons. I've never actually completed one. I've never actually finished an FSI course either! I hope to finish French soon ... two plus years after starting it. It's not a course I can do straight through. I'll do a couple chapters, and then move on, and come back to it when I'm ready for the next chunk. The problem (though it's not really a 'problem') with both courses is that they really do aim to bring you to a high level ... B2 or C1. That takes 100's to 1000's of hours - that's a lot of time with one book! My general experience is that Assimil + FSI (partial) + a grammar book (partial; TY or Living Language) is enough to get me to a stage where I can start using native materials. I'll come back to FSI and TY as I progress, and when I am ready for the more difficult parts of the language. Of course, if you have a chance at immersion then you wouldn't need as many books. And Turkey isn't that far away for you! kanewai on 11 January 2014 |
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Thanks for the insight, it helps a lot. I like the intensity of these courses, I like it a lot! I want to get to a high level in Turkish (not all my language goals are the same).
Ah, FSI French... I bet FSI gives you a great accent, from all that repetition, and that's reason enough to study from it. In fact, after some TY progress, maybe I should just use FSI for pronunciation reasons (?). My hat off to you for flipping through the Iliad, btw. Not many people can say that you know! In fact, good job handling so many languages. renaissancemedi on 12 January 2014 |
Dear Kanewai, Shut up. Whenever you write "this should be easy" you have been wrong. You have zero percent accuracy. So stop it. Love, Kanewai ____________________________________ Seriously, there is no easy way for me to balance three languages. I'll have a couple weeks where I'm on it, and I start to project into the future based upon my best weeks, rather than my average weeks. I know I could do three languages, and work, and go to the gym, and have a partial social life, and still sleep eight hours a night. I even did the math to prove it. The problem is, I didn't leave much room for random events. Like having to work weekends, or having a two-day mental deficit from a long night with friends and a bottle of whisky, or Schoenhof's taking forever to ship Assimil Italian (even though Kerrie warned me), or Assimil Le Turc suddenly getting a lot harder (like it always does), or drinking too much coffee and staying up half the night playing Angry Birds, or having to do laundry. I guess I could have predicted the last one. So I'm scaling back my ambition a bit. Not a lot: I'll work the same courses & same languages, just at a more tenable pace. kanewai on 17 January 2014 |
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I'm struggling with the same issues you describe, but I'm not as well organized as you are. As a beginner, it's essential to do something in the language every day, but maybe not for intermediate, maybe a longer session every other day would be enough? I don't know...it takes a certain time to warm up and shift gears (at least for me it does). I'm still trying to figure it out. Last year I maintained one language and actively studied one. That was no problem. This year, I'm trying to actively study three languages...seemed like such a good idea at the time when I was off work during the holidays. ;)
Oh yes, I can also relate to the swings between overconfidence ("this should be easy") and the despair of perfectionism ("this is impossible"). And it's hard to evaluate the usefulness of certain activities that may not have an immediate payoff. I really admire your dedication and enjoy reading your log. BAnna on 17 January 2014 |
I know exactly how you feel: I'm trying to balance three languages, work, gym, social life, music, and of course sleep. I agree that it's theoretically possible, and in a good week (not too busy, not many unforeseen events, adequate sleep) I actually manage pretty well, but unfortunately like you say it doesn't always work out that way and things come up! I think the best thing to do is just try to relax and not worry about it too much, otherwise you stress out and that makes the whole thing worse or you try to over-compensate and get burnt out. garyb on 17 January 2014 |
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I hate the balancing act too. I've been sort of focusing on one while "maintaining" the
others but "maintaining" often turns into not doing much at all. Which is fine for French since it's pretty burned into my brain, but it pretty much wipes out all my gains in Spanish and especially Irish since I'm still in the early stages of learning them. So it's necessary to find some time to devote to them. sctroyenne on 17 January 2014 |
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I feel much the same way, only I've had to deal with up to 7 languages. Some days I'm just too worn out from the rest of the day to study a foreign language.
It does help me mentally that I restrict myself to doing small sections in each of my languages (e.g. 3 pages of exercises from "Modern Ukrainian", 1 chapter from Turkish Self-Study Course) every week or two. I'd go nuts if I set anything ambitious, but I still feel a certain sense of accomplishment of sticking to these modest goals even if my progress is at a glacial pace. Chung on 17 January 2014 |
I figured that out, too. Ask Serpent, she is an expert at balancing languages. :)
Yea, you should have seen that one coming. Unless you are like my kids, and just throw it all in a basket and pick your clean clothes out as you need them. :D Still, it is amazing how much you manage to accomplish. I like your rotation plan. I think I might try it if my life ever settles down. LOL Kerrie on 18 January 2014 |
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I'm glad to know I'm not the only one still trying to figure this out!
I'm also still at the stage where I need to do a little each day. The catch is, I don't know that I'm really learning what I need from Italian FAST, and Assimil Turkish has gotten so hard that I need to set it aside. That hurts. I like the course, but there is so much new vocabulary and grammar in each lesson that I spend most of the time flipping back and forth between the lesson and the dictionary - it's not always transparent how Assimil's translation matches up with the original text. I don't really retain much at all this way. I'm only on lesson 30, but it feels like Assimil is already at the A2/B1 range. It's too soon. I hate to do this, but I need to set it aside for now. I wish there were more A-level material! I'd love a Michel Thomas or a Living Language Turkish course. As it is, I'll move back to Teach Yourself, along with FSI when it feels right. I wrote in an earlier post that I didn't understand why Turkish was lumped with the harder languages. I understand now! As for Italian ... I also felt like I was stalling a bit with FSI FAST. I'm past my goals, but the emphasis is too much on room service, ironing shirts, and shining shoes. Nothing relevant to my life! I was hoping that Assimil would arrive by now, but it hasn't even shipped. Damn Showolehrosrhs or whatever they're called. I just ordered LL Assimil online. It's not too expensive, and I really liked the LL Japanese course. I also restarted Michel Thomas's Foundation Course. I thought I was beyond this basic beginner level stuff, but it turns out I still really need it. It was almost a pleasure making dinner while listening to the first half dozen lessons. I was hoping that I'd be able to push beyond what I knew before with both Italian and Turkish. Now I'm hoping that I can at least match it! And the big question I need to ponder is: what comes next? Especially with Italian ... do I delay Spanish (again) and continue on? And if I delay Spanish do I sabotage my chances of completing the Super Challenge with Spanish? Do I try and do both, or do I set Italian aside and let it fade ... I don't actually have to answer any of these questions ... yet. As for French, Pimsleur IV has been great. I wish that level V were out already! As it is, I'm half-way through, and think that I'll save the last 15 for closer to my trip. I'm still struggling with Proust. I have absolutely no idea what any of the novels after Swann's Way are about, and it's fun to go in blind. And I don't want to give anything away, but you get a deeper perspective of many of the main characters in the second volume. It's interesting, but here haven't been any of the amazing passages that illuminated Swann's Way. Hopefully they'll come later - I'm only at 20%. Although La PlanĂšte des singes just arrived in the mail ... I might take a break from Proust and read something fun and easy this coming week. I'm amending my strict 3-week cycle, mostly because this set hasn't been working for me. This week will be: Italian: Michel Thomas, some FSI Turkish: Teach Yourself French: Proust, and maybe some Apes, And ... reluctantly, I do know how to balance 3 languages. It's just that it involves more healthy living than I like. I've done it before: gym at 6 am, followed by coffee and a language; work; bike home listening to L2 Pimsleur; at home work on L3. It means going to bed early, cutting back on drinking, eating right (so that I have the physical energy to work out and the mental energy to study), and all the other associated and awful healthy living stuff. It'll be good. I want to lose some weight before France anyway ('cause those mugs are skinny!). kanewai on 27 January 2014 |
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I can recommend MT Italian with all my heart. It helped me pull together and use my vocabulary, break down in my head everything I ever wanted to communicate into manageable chunks, and have real conversations with people. I mean, it works. If MT french is anything like that, it's worth it as well.
As for Turkish, here is another one who couldn't stay with TY or FSI only. You were right all along about using both. I haven't tried assimil, because I am not an assimil person. I have also wished for a MT turkish lesson (I am a fan as you have understood). Oh, and not all French are skinny. I think it's a matter of attitute more than anything else, in terms of language as well. I don't know if you've been there before, but my advice is : show no fear! :) renaissancemedi on 27 January 2014 |
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I really like MT too. I did the full Italian course back in 2011, along with two levels of Pimsleur, and felt really confident while in Rome. I didn't have a huge vocabulary, but I was very comfortable at the basic level. I was really hoping I could just start where I left off.
I think the problem with a lot of courses is that they jump ahead too fast. My FSI-charts estimate that it takes about 300 hours of study to reach a strong A2 in languages like Turkish, Greek, and Russian. Assimil tries to get you to that level after only 15 hours! My goal is to be able to speak simply, but to speak well. With that in mind, I finished up Teach Yourself Lesson 3 this morning. The chapters are short enough that I am going to attempt to over-learn them, so that at least the basic endings and forms are burned into my skull and start to feel natural. ______________________________________ Another mistake I was making was in not allowing enough time in between languages. We might study for thirty minutes, but that information settles in over the next couple hours. It doesn't work to do thirty minutes of Turkish and jump right into thirty minutes of Italian. There's not enough time to process either. The irony is: I knew this already. I think I've even advised newbies to follow the same advice. I just didn't apply it myself! So I started my new routine this morning: gym at an ungodly hour, then a bit of Turkish at the coffee shop, and now I'm at work. I'll do another set of Italian before dinner. This should be more sustainable than my original plan. ______________________________________ I also have a couple movies I can recommend: Home, Ursula Meier (2008) - A family's individualistic lifestyle is threatened when a new superhighway opens in front of their house. It's a sad comedy that really grew on me over time.  Harem Suare, Ferzan Ăzpetek (1999) - Set in the harem during the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Beautiful, but somewhat confusing. From the same director who did Steam and His Secret Life. In Turkish, Italian, and French.  Ieri, oggi, domani; Vittorio de Sica (1963) - Three short comedies starring Sophia Loren and Marcello Mastroianni. Light and funny, and OMG is Sophia Loren sexy.  Nicolas le floch, Le FantĂŽme de la rue Royale (2009) - Nicolas investigates the mysterious goings on of a rich family with dark secrets. These are classic mysteries that remind me of old Agatha Christie and Sherlock Holmes books. *** http://www.mhznetworks.org/watch/nicolas-le-floch-affair - MHz Networks plays one new episode of Nicolas a week, in French with English subtitles.  Bocaccio '70 (anthology, 1962) - Four more fun Italian shorts. I've only watched two so far.  And one to avoid: Fellini's Casanova. I couldn't make it through more than 20 minutes. It felt like a bad episode of Benny Hill. The critics say the movie was ugly on purpose, as a commentary on ... something. I don't care. Ugly is ugly. kanewai on 27 January 2014 |
ItÂŽs funny how our love for languages urges us to follow paths still unexplored by native speakers! I mean a lot of French speakers have never tried reading Proust for lack of courage and / or lack of linguistic skills even in their own language...Keep up the good work! agantik on 02 February 2014 |
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Hey hey! I'm just posting to say Hi, and I'll be following you because you are on team DeuxiĂšme and because your log looks interesting. Also, I've always thought your advice was useful and level-headed. Except, perhaps, for this madness about not drinking!
Jeffers on 02 February 2014 |
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Third Set
I had to make some major changes this set. I slowed down my pace a lot, and officially put aside Assimil Le Turc. I have finished two Assimil editions (French and Spanish), and failed to finish three (Turkish, Arabic, Ancient Greek). I already a decent background in French and Spanish before I started, and a limited background in the others. And now I think that Assimil is not a beginner's course in any way, shape, or form. I still think it's great for moving from approximately A2 > B1, and I think I'd like to come back to Le Turc one day ... after I have a better understanding of the basics of the language. Français - I finished 19 levels of Pimsleur IV. That's not bad for three weeks. I'll finish the rest closer to my trip. I like this level of Pimsleur, and am interested to see what the fifth-level is like when it comes out. The dialogues are much more practical than they were on Levels I-III. We're no longer asked to buy the girl at the bar a drink over and over (Level 1), or have ten lessons in a row about playing tennis with Mrs. Jones on Sunday (Level 3). This level we learn to exclaim quelle horreur! when our friend shows up for lunch at the port in a tight yellow coat. I am sure that this will come in handy. In fact, I plan on wandering around Nice muttering quelle horreur at random strangers, just for effect. I'm about 1/3 of the way through Ă l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs. It's slow reading! I like that there is more of an actual story here than in Du cĂŽtĂ© de chez Swann, though so far there haven't been any of the beautiful, sublime passages that were sprinkled through Swann. The plot itself isn't terribly compelling - I find that I like it better the next day when I'm reflecting back on what I read than I do when I'm actually reading it. My plan this round was to start working my way through FSI Lesson XXIII. I don't know yet if I'll actually do this or not. TĂŒrkçe - I picked up Teach Yourself again, and finished Lesson 5 this morning. I'll start FSI again once I have the two courses more in sync (I think about lesson 7 of Teach Yourself matched up with lesson 16 of FSI). I feel much more comfortable again with my Turkish. Sometimes the old-fashioned methods of learning - vocabulary lists and grammar drills - really do work better than the newer methods. Italiano - FSI FAST was ok, but it's not on the same level as the full FSI courses. I did a couple hours of Michel Thomas, and have started in with Living Language. I'll tear through the beginning lessons quickly, and then settle in to more formal studying. I'm also planning on starting up Pimsleur II this round. I'm also feeling good about Italian at the moment ... it feels like a little extra studying will really pay off. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ - nada Español - nada side to Jeffers: The madness didn't last long at all. In fact, the walk to the bottle shop takes exactly one-half of a Pimsleur lesson ... and so now every time I study Italian I end up with another bottle of wine. ____________________________________________________________ Summer Plans: I'm tempted now to continue with Turkish and Italian through the summer. Instead of my current cycle of learning and forgetting languages, I'd like too see if I can bring them to a point where I can maintain them without a lot of stress. I figure, I've got the momentum going now. It will be easier with Italian ... there are a lot of books I'd love to read in the original. Though that might mean delaying Spanish ... again ... kanewai on 03 February 2014 |
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It's motivating to read about your turkish progress. It's interesting that the combination FSI+TY is so popular. Somehow we all decided to do the same thing this year, each one seperately. Do you suppose we found a winning combination here?
As for Assimil Ancient Greek I never cared for its strong french accent. If you end up using it, be careful about that part. renaissancemedi on 04 February 2014 |
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3.2
Slowly chugging along, but enjoying it. Super Challenge II I know I can do the book part of the Super Challenge in three languages, and would really enjoy it, but the movie part has my stumped. I wouldn't enjoy watching 100 movies or shows in each language. I think what I'm going to do is sign up for Italian, Spanish, and French; read a lot, watch what I want, and make a decision later on which of the three to go for the diamonds with. I set up a http://justpaste.it/kanewai2 - page already, with books that I've earmarked over the past year. And I even made it pretty by copying and pasting the country flags from http://justpaste.it/Kerrie - Kerrie's page ! I'll probably continue with Harry Potter (Spanish) and Percy Jackson (Italian) in the beginning, but my real goal is to tackle the classics (Dante, Cervantes, Bocaccio) and modern greats (Jorge Luis Borges, Gabriel GarcĂa MĂĄrquez, Umberto Eco, Italo Calvino). TĂŒrkçe I spent a long Sunday morning working only on Turkish, and made some big gains. Sometimes these longer sessions really help by immersing yourself in the language. We also had our first study group with our Ä°stanbul adventures. A good friend spent years as an archaeologist in Anatolia, and we got together over pizza and Lambrusco for a night of Turkish. Predictably, none of the other guys has even opened a book - they all claim to be bad at languages, based on their experiences of trying to study for ten minutes every other weekend. This is the norm, isn't it? I'm ok with it; I assumed I would be the group translator anyway. It gives me more incentive to study and get it right! I'm currently on Lesson 17 of FSI (future, and "future in the past" ) and Lesson 7 of Teach Yourself (directions; simple present-wide tense). I'm still taking it slow, and making sure I really understand a section before moving on. At some point in the next couple weeks I'll stop and regroup, and focus more on speaking and producing the language. I also printed out a verb chart, which was intimidating. There are all sorts of strange creatures ahead, like the "The Past Progressive Tense of Report and Presumption" and the "Pluperfect Indefinite (Doubtful Distant Past)" (e.g., etmemiĆmiĆim, I think that I had not done). Assimil remains opaque. Italiano Meanwhile, my Assimil Italian arrived unexpectedly, and I like it. For now I'm rotating through Living Language, Italian, and Pimsleur II. It sounds like a lot, but there hasn't been anything super challenging yet. I'd like to keep on with Italian after my trip, and have notified Team Forza that I'll be sticking around. Although I think I woke them up from siesta ... it's been a pretty quiet thread. Español I reopened Harry Potter y la Orden del FĂ©nix from where I left off, around page 400, and read a few pages to see how my comprehension was. And I'm glad to report that I can still read! I was worried that I had lost a lot. I'm looking forward to restarting my reading, although I want to get my Italian up a few levels before I do. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ EMK started ringing a bell and crying bring out your dead! And so I will. Perhaps with Homer, or perhaps I'll move to the relatively easier but still really quite hard Classical period. I don't have time now, but come June I'll be able to work it in. I've found that I can balance two active languages nicely; I'm still not sure what my passive limit is. Français Warning: Minor Proust Spoiler Alert! I finished the first part of Ă l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs, Autour de Mme Swann. I enjoyed some of it - the dull courtesan from the first book has turned out to be a dynamic and exciting character, and the narrator develops a crush on her bad-girl daughter Gilberte. But the love is unrequited, and it took me weeks to plod through his endless whining. It reminded me too much of Swann's equally nauseous and endless whining about Odette de CrĂ©cy in Du cĂŽtĂ© de chez Swann , and I thought: I will not make it through the series if I have to listen to a variation on this in every book. And then, in Noms de pays : Le pays the narrator's grandmother takes him out of Paris on a trip to Balbec (somewhere on the coast), and suddenly the Proust I love is back, and I find myself highlighting half a dozen passages right at the start of the second part. I've just learned how to copy kindle highlights to my computer, so get ready for lots of favorite in the months ahead! Câest pourquoi la meilleure part de notre mĂ©moire est hors de nous, dans un souffle pluvieux, dans lâodeur de renfermĂ© dâune chambre ou dans lâodeur dâune premiĂšre flambĂ©e, partout oĂč nous retrouvons de nous-mĂȘme ce que notre intelligence, nâen ayant pas lâemploi, avait dĂ©daignĂ©, la derniĂšre rĂ©serve du passĂ©, la meilleure, celle qui quand toutes nos larmes semblent taries, sait nous faire pleurer encore. Hors de nous? En nous pour mieux dire, mais dĂ©robĂ©e Ă nos propres regards, dans un oubli plus ou moins prolongĂ©. Câest grĂące Ă cet oubli seul que nous pouvons de temps Ă autre retrouver lâĂȘtre que nous fĂ»mes, nous placer vis-Ă -vis des choses comme cet ĂȘtre lâĂ©tait, souffrir Ă nouveau, parce que nous ne sommes plus nous, mais lui, et quâil aimait ce qui nous est maintenant indiffĂ©rent. ......................................................... Mais enfin le plaisir spĂ©cifique du voyage nâest pas de pouvoir descendre en route et de sâarrĂȘter quand on est fatiguĂ©, câest de rendre la diffĂ©rence entre le dĂ©part et lâarrivĂ©e non pas aussi insensible, mais aussi profonde quâon peut, de la ressentir dans sa totalitĂ©, intacte, telle quelle Ă©tait dans notre pensĂ©e quand notre imagination nous portait du lieu oĂč nous vivions jusquâau cĆur dâun lieu dĂ©sirĂ©, en un bond qui nous semblait moins miraculeux parce quâil franchissait une distance que parce quâil unissait deux individualitĂ©s distinctes de la terre, quâil nous menait dâun nom Ă un autre nom. .................................................... English translations (not mine) That is why the better part of our memory exists outside ourselves, in a blatter of rain, in the smell of an unaired room or of the first crackling brushwood fire in a cold grate: wherever, in short, we happen upon what our mind, having no use for it, had rejected, the last treasure that the past has in store, the richest, that which when all our flow of tears seems to have dried at the source can make us weep again. Outside ourselves, did I say; rather within ourselves, but hidden from our eyes in an oblivion more or less prolonged. It is thanks to this oblivion alone that we can from time to time recover the creature that we were, range ourselves face to face with past events as that creature had to face them, suffer afresh because we are no longer ourselves but he, and because he loved what leaves us now indifferent. ....................................................... But after all the special attraction of the journey lies not in our being able to alight at places on the way and to stop altogether as soon as we grow tired, but in its making the difference between departure and arrival not as imperceptible but as intense as possible, so that we are conscious of it in its totality, intact, as it existed in our mind when imagination bore us from the place in which we were living right to the very heart of a place we longed to see, in a single sweep which seemed miraculous to us not so much because it covered a certain distance as because it united two distinct individualities of the world, took us from one name to another name. kanewai on 13 February 2014 |
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I found your list of novels very interesting indeed. Do you have all of them, or are they just on your hit-list?
I'm on Pimsleur III myself, and my county libraries don't have IV, so that might be the end of the road for me. But I'm definitely going to start working quelle horreur into my swearing. Jeffers on 14 February 2014 |
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I have a lot of the French novels - the classics are free on kindle, and I've found
them over the years at used book stores and library fundraisers. I downloaded a lot of Italian samples on my kindle, just to gauge their difficulty. I'm not ready yet, but I can tease out their meanings, so I'm not so far away. Surprisingly - since Spanish is more or less the second language in the US - it's hard to find good and affordable books in Spanish! I bought French and Spanish IV on http://www.audible.com/ - audible . Every once in awhile they will have a sale on credits, and a Pimsleur level is 5 credits - so it comes to $40 to $60. That's not bad. I don't know if audible has the same catalog in the U.K., though. The one drawback is that you can't copy the recordings off audible, so it's hard to share. kanewai on 14 February 2014 |
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I have used audible for Pimsleur I, before I discovered them in my local libraries. But I usually use Pimsleur in my car, and I don't have an aux jack. So I have to burn audible file to CD, but in order to prevent file sharing (I guess) the tracks are pretty random. The end of one lesson and the beginning of the next will be in the middle of a track!
Jeffers on 14 February 2014 |
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Fourth Set
This has been an insanely busy period at work; I've been making steady progress, but using easier materials, and haven't had the time to pull of those long Sunday afternoons curled up with my books that I love so much. Français - 58 days to Provence! Half-way through Proust. No surprise, this has been slow going. TĂŒrkçe - 21 days to Istanbul! I reached Chapter 7 of Teach Yourself, and Lesson 18 of FSI, and hit a wall. Not a bad one, but there has been so much new material that I need to stop, regroup, and work more on what I've already studied. I'll be using Babbel (which I really like), and have picked up Assimil again. Assimil is still challenging, but a little bit easier to understand now that I've done more grammar work. I really hope that I can keep up with Assimil. I enjoy the course, and it's one that I can see working on over the next four or five months. Italiano - 52 days to Florence! I did a lot of work on Italian this set, though I was hoping that I'd finish more! It's such a fun language. My focus will be on Turkish for the next couple weeks, but I'll be using Assimil and DuoLingo each day, so I'll still be moving forward slowly. And ... a good friend just asked if I wanted to travel to Venice and Tuscany with him in 2015. Ma certamente! And that cements it: I'll continue on with Assimil and Living Language after this trip, and plan on doing the Super Challenge in Italian. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ - I want to try EMK's Dead Language Challenge, although it will be very, very challenging to read 100 pages this summer. Español - poor Spanish. Sorry. Nada. ______________________________________________ Overall this winter has been an intensive time for me with languages. As Spring comes I'll ease up, and just continue with Assimil for Italian and, if possible, Turkish. ______________________________________________ 
kanewai on 25 February 2014 |
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This might cheer you up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwAOc4g3K-g - The All-England Summarize Proust Competition (Thanks to Monty Python, of course). Jeffers on 25 February 2014 |
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I have similar struggles using Assimil for an agglutinative language, the literal translations are never literal enough, and I often have to consult the simpler sentences in the exercises just to figure out the new vocab.
Your log makes me want to incorporate more movie screenshots and color coding into my log. As well as start reading Proust and learning Ancient Greek. YnEoS on 25 February 2014 |
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Love the Summarize Proust competition! I've been practicing at home for when it comes
to my town. I also de-TAC'd my log title. I'll still follow the logs I follow, but this will be the third year where 80% of the people who start on the teams are gone by March. At this point TAC seems like a failed concept to me. On to languages! Français 65% of the way through Proust. The second volume has finally started to get exciting. Or at least, as exciting as Proust gets. There's a great section where "society" is dining in style in a coastal hotel, while outside the poor are observing them through the glass in the same way that tourists watch fish in a giant aquarium. And here's a nice quote where the narrator talks about all the rigid rules we have regarding love and romance: Les dĂ©marcation trop Ă©troites que nous traçons autour de l'amour viennent seulement de notre grande ignorance de la vie. my take: The too rigid boundaries that we draw around "love" arise solely from our great ignorance of life. TĂŒrkçe - 3 days to Ä°stanbul! I had a week of intense work and almost no language study, but it's been all-Turkish all the time since then. I feel somewhat confident that I'll be able to handle basic conversations. Of course, I've been studying 90 minutes to 2 hours per day, so I'd better have some skills. I re-did the last part of Pimsleur I, which I was worried would be useful but boring. Instead it turned out to be really interesting the second time around; this time I understood the grammar that was being used, and it was nice being able to understand how the phrases work. I've also been studying a lot with Babbel. It's a frustrating program ... some days I wake up to find that I have 189 review cards, and it takes an hour to clear the deck. I haven't found a way to pace it properly. Beyond that I did one more set of Assimil (chapters 28-35) two more chapters of Teach Yourself (through chapter 9) and one more in FSI (through chapter 19). I forget sometimes how rewarding these intensive periods can be. I think that was the original intent of the six-week challenges, though we've all (myself included) wandered away from that by doing multiple languages at once. Bouncing between texts has been incredibly useful. Teach Yourself will get hard, and I'll do a few chapters in FSI. That will get complicated, and I'll rotate back to Teach Yourself, and discover that the chapter that was hard is now easy. I was hoping that Assimil would also finally click, but sadly, it didn't. I made it through one extra week, but there is too big a disconnect between the Turkish and the idiomatic French. I'd have to look up half the Turkish words in the dictionary to figure out how they connected to the loose translations. It wasn't worth the time. And that's a shame, because I won't continue Turkish at this intensity after my trip. In theory Assimil would've been great for slow and steady studying. As it is, I've boxed it up and put it back on the shelf. Italiano - I haven't done much, though I'm planning on having an Italian-intensive period in a few weeks. kanewai on 14 March 2014 |
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I do hope you continue with turkish, even if it's slow and steady. Because you made quite an effort and it's a pity to lose all that.
Any impressions from Istanbul? How was it speaking with natives? renaissancemedi on 14 March 2014 |
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I really like Turkish, and even more I like how it's slowly opening up to me, and how
I'm beginning to see the overall patterns in the language emerging. I'll let you know how it goes as soon as I get back! There's a lot of things that are stopping me from continuing on, though: - three weeks after I get back I head to France and Italy, so I really want to shift my focus to these languages. This trip to Istanbul is more of a spontaneous "holy @$#@ I can't believe how cheap that ticket is we have to go!" And so five of my friends are going. It's not even my 'real' vacation. I'll have almost a six week gap of no Turkish (because I'll be focusing on Italian and French). - That's the main reason I'm bummed about Assimil It is theoretically perfect for slow and steady. - Third, unless I find a job in Turkey there's just not enough to keep me going! Other languages have amazing literature and cinematic traditions to help you through that multi-year middle level. I don't know that Turkish has that ... ... though OMG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0YjQEhCotw - Turkish Star Wars (DĂŒnyayı Kurtaran Adam) is a classic ... ... so I'll have to stop somewhere. I still might try slow and steady, though Ancient Greek tempts me more as a language worthy of a lifetime commitment! 
kanewai on 14 March 2014 |
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If you enjoy DĂŒnyayı Kurtaran Adam, you should be aware that the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhzuKyHwceU - rabit hole of low budget turkish action movies goes pretty deep . Anything directed by Ăetin Inanç and starring CĂŒneyt Arkin is pretty much guaranteed gold. That and lots of great Turkish music are some of the main reasons I want to study Turkish one day (though I want to get to a strong intermediate in Hungarian first).
I don't know as much about Turkish literature, but my general impression is that there's lots of great Turkish media out there for consuming. I don't know if it's enough to be worth dedicating your life to, but I think it might be worth exploring more before giving up on the language. YnEoS on 14 March 2014 |
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If you don't plan to use the language much, of course there is no motive to continue. I know how you feel, because I also plan to stop some languages after a certain level, though not turkish.
I found something that might keep your interest for a while. Here is a book I plan to read (one day...). It has become my goal, more or less. Turkish Literary Reader (Uralic and Altaic Series) It includes prose, poetry, some useful cultural info (in English), as well as vocabulary of course. I'm sure if you... look around... carefully, you are bound to find it. Somewhere. renaissancemedi on 16 March 2014 |
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TĂŒrkçe
I did really well with my Turkish in Ä°stanbul! I was only communicating at an A1 level, but it came fluently, and after a day I was able to adjust my accent & pronunciation enough so that I rarely had to repeat myself. People were really supportive of my attempts to speak - Turkey is great for that - and the boys at our hotel would give me little Turkish quizzes each morning at breakfast. So all the hard work really paid off. However ... when I look at people's Facebook page, or pick up the newspaper, or even at an Assimil chapter, I realize that I still barely understand a thing. I still have a long way to go before I reach any kind of proficiency. One unique thing, for me, is how much of the grammar I was able to use even with my limited vocabulary. In Spanish and French, even though I have a moderate vocabulary, and can recognize most tenses, I tend to fall back on the present tense when speaking. In Turkish I used the -iyor, -d, -ebil, -ir, and -ecak verb forms regularly. Once I learned a form I could use the form, which was a nice surprise! I've toyed with the idea of trying to maintain what I know, but I don't really have the time. It would take a good year or more of hard work to reach a decent level, and I don't really have the time or the brain power. So, reluctantly, it's time to move on. Recap Pimsleur I - I did this first, back in December, then repeated the last fifteen lessons right before my trip. Extremely useful. FSI (Lessons 1-18) and Teach Yourself (Lessons 1-9) - We also extremely useful. I alternated between these two over the course of ten weeks. Assimil (Lessons 1-35) - It got too hard to continue. I would use this if Turkish was my only language, if I had the time to really commit an hour each day to struggle through each chapter, and if I had long term plans to reach proficiency. Babbel - Worked really well to internalize notions of vowel harmony, and keeps a vocabulary review list based upon each section you finish. It was useful to a point, but then the "review" section became too burdensome. Some days I would have 80 words, and it would take my close to an hour to clear it ... and not all the words were useful. I didn't do it for a few days, and my review list grew to 480! Français I finally finished Ă l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs. It was a long ten week ordeal. Some of the writing is beautiful. Some of Proust's observations are brilliant. But his style of analyzing every little detail of every little thought that he has is exhausting. Maybe I'll read the third volume in another year ... it probably won't be anytime soon! I'm also making one last final push to finish FSI - I'm half way through the penultimate chapter. I read once on HTLAL that no one ever finishes this course. That's enough motivation for me to try. Italiano I didn't touch Italian during my final Turkish push, and it was surprisingly difficult to come back to. I think I had exaggerated how easy it was in my own mind, and so was frustrated that I still have to work at it. I'm currently working though Assimil (slowly), Living Language (great for vocabulary acquisition) and Pimsleur III (great for speaking skills). More delusions: I am convinced that I will be able to jump right into reading Umberto Eco and Italo Calvino once the Super Challenge starts. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ I can still "read" the opening of the Iliad, but I think I'm reading like a child does: I've reviewed the lines so much that I can recite them without necessarily remembering what each exact word means. Once I've brought my Italian up to a sustainable reading level (and can stop formally studying it) I'd like to start in again. Español nada _____________________________________________________ Spring Exams April 18-23: Florence April 24-May 4: Nice, Avignon, Lyon. My French better be up to speed by them. Otherwise I'll just cry. kanewai on 03 April 2014 |
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Bravo kanewai. It seems that turkish is a really long road to walk on. Reading your review was helpful to me because now I see that I have to complete the entire FSI, along with pimsleur and possibly something else too, and then, maybe I'll be on my way!
Quizzes each morning at breakfast? That was great :D renaissancemedi on 03 April 2014 |
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Spring Fever / One Week to Europe
This was supposed to be my time to jam: all French and Italian, all the time. But I'm just not feeling it. I'll open my Assimil, and my brain will say: no. I don't want to. I want to go to the beach, or bar, or just lay around the house doing nothing. On the weekends I don't even try. My motivation is low right now. Kind of. I track what I do on a spreadsheet, and I'm still making progress - it's just not at the intense level I was at last month for Turkish. I think that three weeks of intensity is enough for me. I enjoy it immensely, but I can't do it often. TĂŒrkçe I tried to write a note to a friend on Facebook, and I had to use the dictionary to look up a frikkin' pronoun. Language skills fade so quickly at the beginning level! Français I finished FSI Lesson XXIII, and have one chapter to go! I thought about pushing through it, but it has a recap of everything in the whole course - it looks too valuable to rush it. This is one I want to take my time with. I've been working on bringing my spoken French up to par, so it's been Pimsleur IV, an Anki deck with Assimil lessons in it, and DuoLingo. Though I'm kind of over DuoLingo. I started reading Vendredi, ou les limbes du Pacifique, a retelling of the Robinson Crusoe story by Michel Tournier (1967). It won the Grand Prix du roman de l'AcadĂ©mie française; I think Tournier is one of those famous French authors who are unknown in the States. I'm reading now without a dictionary, which is exciting. And I dig the 1960's era cool of the cover! 
I've also been trying to catch Nicholas le Floch episodes on MHZ. This is tricky; they're only online for a week, and I usually don't finish an episode before it expires. Which is ok; as much as I enjoy the show I usually have no idea who is murdering whom - everyone looks the same in those powdered wigs. 
Italiano I go back and forth between good Italian days and bad Italian days. I downloaded Una ballata del mare salato (Hugo Pratt, 1969?), but it's still just beyond my comprehension. I'll need to work slowly through it with a dictionary. This will be my first Super Challenge book; it looks fun. It was the only Italian b.d. to make Le Monde's list of 99 Books of the Century. 
It's that or Dante. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ Español kanewai on 10 April 2014 |
I also often suffer from lack of drive to do the necessary language learning, and as you said language skills fade so quickly at the beginning level!!! Together, lack of motivation and quickly fading knowledge is deadly to progress. This is what I have been struggling with for a long time - albeit I'm trying to change my shameful ways with help from my log & this great community! As a fellow sometimes-not-so-motivated learner, how do you deal with these kinds of moments? How do you get through them and keep going? Your language learning accomplishments clearly show that you have found a way! So what's the secret sauce??? :) Rac. Raconteur on 13 April 2014 |
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Reality Check
Français First the good news - I felt really comfortable with my language skills in Europe. Especially French; I knew I had a lot of passive knowledge, but didn't have much confidence that I would be able to activate it. So it was a nice surprise when I crossed the border and my French just started flowing. The two things that really helped were reactivating my old Anki deck with sentences from Assimil, and doing the last fifteen lessons of Pimsleur IV. I did a little bit of Michel Thomas's Language Builder (the one with no students, but tons of common phrases), and I think I could have spent more time with that. Next time I need to activate French I'll probably try the same approach. I would like to build a better Anki deck with just Assimil's exercises, and perhaps one with all the sentences in FSI 24 - the last and most dense lesson. And the MT course is valuable for learning stock phrases to the point where they feel natural. I visited Nice, Avignon, and Lyon. Interestingly enough, Nice and Avignon are heavily touristed, but I relied on French almost exclusively there. People were supportive of my attempts, and I heard a lot of things along the lines of "oh good you can speak French, that makes things easier." In Lyon, which is not at all on the tourist trail (and was my favorite city) there was surprisingly a lot more English. The guys I met said they had an international set of friends, and though none were native-English speakers they found it easier to use it as their lingua franca. Of course it ebbed and flowed. There were definite times where my brain just shut off. Sometimes in mid-conversation. Moving forward, it's gonna be all about the Super Challenge. My favorite streaming site was shut down, so I'm not sure where I will find the movies and shows. My library, however, is growing faster than I have time to read. Italiano I made a big fifteen week push in Italian before the trip. And I was right where I expected to be: a confident A1 who could use limited skills fluently. I know this isn't a tenable level, based upon past experiences with Turkish and Arabic, so I intend to keep moving forward. It's also that dangerous level where you think you know far more than you actually do. I went into a bookstore and thought: I want to read Machiavelli. I tried the first paragraph. No go. So maybe something modern - Umberto Eco. Again, no. But he mixes in a lot of Latin and his own made up language. How about Italo Calvino? I already read him in English. Should be no problem. Hah. I made it through the first section of Le cittĂ invisibili, and it's beautiful, but I don't know that I'm really learning when I am cross-checking every other word against the English. So I scaled down again, and downloaded Harry Potter e l'Ordine della Fenice. And it's still hard, and my kindle dictionary does not handle Italian as well as it handled French. I got a lot of blank responses even on the first page. Obviously I need more work, that just because Italian is easier doesn't mean it's easy. And so I've started making my verb charts, and I'm continuing with Assimil through the summer (Assimil Italian is good, but a bit plain; I miss the stupid jokes of their French course, and the Gothic weirdness of their Spanish). Silly me. I thought I was at the point where I'd just get a free pass in Italian and sort of pick it up without a lot of work. Because: Magic, I guess. @ Raconteur - I actually have super low motivation right now. I'm not concerned, because I know I can take it easy for awhile and hit the books hard when I am motivated. The trick is to not actually stop contact with the language, so easy for me means twenty minutes with Assimil Italian at a coffee shop before work, and reading French lit over lunch or in the evening - and no self-pressure to finish any new courses, or do much beyond the minimum 20" / day. TĂŒrkçe ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ Español kanewai on 16 May 2014 |
Have you looked into using http://lwtfi3m.co - Learning with Texts on Benny's site? I have been using that with new (harder) books in Spanish - for the first few chapters, and I'm working through a French book with it, too. You need the text in digital form, but most stuff is fairly easy to find. (PM me if you need help finding something. I figure if you have a paper copy, I don't see a problem with finding a digital copy to supplement it.) It's really tedious at first, but that goes away fairly quickly. You have to have a decent grasp on the language and how it works, etc, but it is really helpful if you're past the beginner stage and already know a related language. Kerrie on 16 May 2014 |
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I think http://www.gialloweb.net/main/default.asp - this is an Italian forum discussing mystery novels. Perhaps you can find something fun there.
dbag on 16 May 2014 |
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Learning with Texts looks interesting ... I'm going to have to try it out.
I'm slowly getting the feel of Harry Potter in Italian, and working with my verb charts is really helping. I was getting confused over silly things. I kept looking up fosse, which means grave or cemetery according to the dictionary, and all I could wonder was: I don't remember there being a graveyard on Privet Drive! I finally realized that fosse was also the imperfect subjunctive of essere, and the chapter starting making a lot more sense. kanewai on 17 May 2014 |
That's great news about your French! I haven't been to Lyon (but will likely visit on a future trip, as some Couchsurfing guests - a family whose members I've now hosted a few times - live nearby. It has a reputation for excellent food: were there any regional dishes or other previously unknown culinary vocab which you encountered during your time there? songlines on 18 May 2014 |
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I did learn a cool new phrase: On mange bien en France.
I ate local as much as possible, and tried to focus on family-owned restaurants off the tourist track. That turned out to be a hit and miss affair (it turns out that sardines in France are still sardines ... I don't know what I was expecting). One woman I stayed with gave me a cookbook on traditional Provençal cooking, and I don't recognize a lot of the terms in it. I'll need to go through with my dictionary. My culinary discoveries (pics to come!) Crema di funghi (Florence) - a porcini mushroom spread for sandwiches. This should be the next pesto; Italian bread + pork + crema di funghi is a divine combination. Rosé de Provençe - these weren't 'great' wines, but were perfect on a sunny afternoon. We need to start drinking more rosé in North America! I think my local wine shop only stocks three. Friends told me that they only became popular about 20 years ago, but now it's very trendy among the young and everyone in the south is drinking them. Niçoise cuisine is strong and hearty! My stereotype was that it would be light, but it was developed to feed hungry fishermen. Tripe - it turns out I like tripe. A lot. It seemed that every city from Florence to Lyon had their own special version, and that it was considered a perfectly normal thing to order. Quenelles - A Lyon specialty, fishcakes made with pike and served in a crawfish-based sauce Nantua. It's like peasant food raised to the level of high cuisine. I tried making them at home, and it wasn't too hard - you need to make a choux pastry the day before, add the fish, and then first poach then bake the quenelles. You need about five hundred pounds of butter for every pound of fish (more or less), so they are rich. I haven't tried the sauce Nantua yet. Raw milk cheese - illegal in the US, and I was prepared to play the dumb American if customs questioned me on my purchases (but officer sir, "cru" means good! Like a "grand cru" wine is the best!), but luckily no one stopped me. I'm totally going to be the hero at the next dinner party - if I don't eat them all first. Meanwhile ... did you catch the Anthony Bourdain show set in Lyon? This article has a clip on school lunches that will make your mouth water: http://edition.cnn.com/video/shows/anthony-bourdain-parts-un known/season- 3/lyon/index.html kanewai on 19 May 2014 |
Sounds yummy! Rosé really needs to be enjoyed properly - chilled on a nice, warm day, preferably outdoors, paired with light foods. A little note on raw milk cheese - it's legal if it's been aged 60 days. So usually hard cheeses you can find raw here, soft cheeses not (if you got a soft cheese through, congrats!). But yeah, it'd be nice if the US government would re-visit this. sctroyenne on 19 May 2014 |
I agree and endorse, as we say :) I've been there as well. I think that sort of motivation that comes from favourite books will eventually help us go a long way with Italian. I've read the name of the rose over 17 times (I know how that looks...) and after that I've lost count. But it is always in greek (a fantastic translation). I thought for a moment maybe I could read it in the original, to help my Italian as others read Harry Potter in many languages, but your comment was indeed a reality check! :D (Harry Potter and Umberto Eco in the same sentence? ) Penelope on 20 May 2014 |
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@ sctroyenne - it was soft cheeses, and they were delicious. I still have some left,
and I'm trying real hard to save them for a nice meal rather than just opening them now. I've settled into a nice, light groove this past month. Italiano I'm managing about five pages of Assimil a week, and a couple chapters of Harry Potter. I'm comfortable with the slow and steady pace; I'll make a couple big pushes over the next year, but I'm not in a rush. Français The podcasts on France Culture are amazing. My comprehension isn't great, and it seems to vary wildly from day to day. I can usually follow enough to get the general thesis or plot. I've found I do a lot better when I read a plot synopsis beforehand. Right now I listen to 30 minutes of French while at the gym, and then switch to music for the rest of my workout. I'm hoping that massive amounts of exposure will help my comprehension. I'm going to claim victory when I can actually understand all of what Franck Ferrand, the narrator of Au coeur de l'histoire, says. I like his voice, but he doesn't pause much between sentences and I get really, really lost trying to follow him. Wanderlust It's hitting hard. Right now my focus is on reading in Italian and listening in French, and I have a few brain cells left over to do a Pimsleur-style course while commuting. I don't want to add a whole new language, I just want to have a summertime fling. Turkish or Ancient Greek would be my top choices, but I'm at a point where I would need to sit down and study them, and I don't have the time. I need an audio-only fling. I've collected lots of audio courses over the years, so I have tons of of choices - though I don't know how good many of them are: Greek, Swahili, or Hindi would be fun for a month or two, just to get a taste. Though I'm not sure if I actually have a Hindi course. I thought I did, but I don't see it on my hard drive. Arabic would be a refresher course, which would make it less stressful than a new language. German and Russian are other options, but I would like to become literate in both of these one day, and I'd rather not start until I'm ready to commit. kanewai on 06 June 2014 |
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If you want an audio Hindi course, I recommend Teach Yourself Hindi Conversation (or whatever the current version is called) over Pimsleur. It's much more useful, more interesting, and more like Hindi as it's spoken. The author, Rupert Snell, has also made free podcasts about vocabulary to accompany Teach Yourself Hindi, but you could listen to them without using the textbook. They are found at:
http://hindiurduflagship.org/resources/ - the Hindi Urdu flagship . Jeffers on 07 June 2014 |
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The Hindu site looks nice - thanks for the link!
I started listening to Michel Thomas's Arabic Foundation, just to test it out, but it is painfully slow. As in, fifteen minutes in and there's only been four vocabulary words, one of which was "falafel." I skipped around a bit, and found a real confusing metaphor comparing verbs to flower stems in a vase, and some stems have flowers, and some have tails. I skipped ahead to a lesson on the advanced tape, and the narrator was introducing gender to the tails of the flowers. I want something light, but this might be ridiculous. Meanwhile, I'll follow Solfrid's mini-challenge and try an Italian Super Challenge- intensive weekend. I just logged everything I've already done this week; we'll see what I can add by Sunday evening. As of now I have 11.3 French books, 12.6 French movies, 4.4 Italian books, and 6.8 Italian films. My Italian isn't strong enough to do a full super-challenge related weekend, so I'll mix it up with Assimil, DuoLingo, and maybe some Living Language. It will be nice if I can bump up my skills a notch! kanewai on 07 June 2014 |
I too have been listening to "Au coeur de l'histoire"; it's good, isn't it? - Though it does get tricky to follow when Ferrand gets excited about his topic, and his voice starts rising in pitch and then speeding up (and speeding up and speeding up). But one of the things I like best about it are the glimpses it gives into culture and history of France, and the diversity of its topics. One expects pieces on French royalty, and notable events in French history, of course, but I also really enjoyed programmes like the ones on "les grandes horizontales" (I thought of you, Kanewai, in regard to your reading of Proust and Zola); French aviation; the Marquis Vauban http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sébastien_Le_Prestre_de_Vauban - Wikipedia Fr the engineer who was responsible for building/ improving many of the military forts / fortified cities in 17th C France; the slave trade; the history of tea, etc. As an aside, if you have time when next in Paris, the Musée des Plans-Reliefs, which has three-dimensional models of the fortified cities of France from that period on, is well worth visiting. (Low-key, but fascinating.) And sometimes "Au coeur.." just goes completely over my head. One of the programmes was about a Swiss (or French-Swiss?) ski champion who was seen as the father of the sport of alpine skiing. I could never quite catch his name, despite it having been repeated numerous times (and still don't know it), so listened to the full broadcast in blissful ignorance of the actual identity of the subject of the programme. (If you remember this one, please let me know..!) Updated to add: http://www.museedesplansreliefs.culture.fr - Musée des plans-reliefs songlines on 08 June 2014 |
Many thanks for the extensive reply. I started a post earlier (complete with links to quenelle history "authentic" quenelles, etc.), but it got lost. The crema di funghi sounds absolutely yummy too. I must say, food is a great motivator for language learning. Et oui, "on mange bien en France"! Hadn't seen the Bourdain clip before - thanks too for that - some of the info. was also in a piece from Radio- Canada (I think) http://ici.radio-canada.ca/ - ici a year or so ago about school lunches in Italy, France, Quebec, and North America, as I recall. I don't think there's a link to the actual broadcast - I watched it on TV, but will check. Does Nicolas Philibert's documentary http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318202/ - Etre et avoir on a one-room school in the Auvergne have footage of their lunch as well? I seem to remember their little stove. - Have you seen the film? It's an interesting complement to http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1068646/ - Entre les murs . Not a great deal of dialogue in "Etre et avoir", but the differences in teaching, social, and cultural styles from North American ones is remarkable. Part of that may be due to the fact that that it's set in a one-room school in rural France (rather than say, in a highly multicultural environment in a French metropolis), but still... (After reading Goscinny's stories, whenever I see the name "Nicolas" - as in the director's above - I tend to add automatically add "le petit..." before it...!) <smile> songlines on 08 June 2014 |
The Musée des Plans Reliefs is awesome! And it's in the Invalides complex so you also get to see all the knights armor and Napoleon's tomb on the same trip. I went on a night where it was free and they had some kind of show out front (though don't remember which day it was). Other great stops for French history (among many): Musée du Moyen Age and the Basilique de Saint Denis where most of the monarchs and many nobles are entombed. sctroyenne on 08 June 2014 |
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Summertime Madness
I am going to try and enter true polyglot territory this summer, and balance five languages. It might work. Or I might decide that it's an insane idea and drop it after a month. The basic plan for now is: french: reading, tv, and podcasts italian: reading, tv, and assimil turkish: one hour on the weekend with FSI ancient greek: one hour on the weekend with the Iliad + supporting texts arabic: michel thomas and pimsleur while biking to work I dob't know if one hour on the weekend is going to be enough to keep my turkish and greek from fading, but I figure it's worth a try - because they absolutely will fade if I do nothing. Français The stranded astronauts spent a lot more time sitting around naked in a cage in Pierre Boulle's La planĂšte des singes than they ever did in the movie. It's good, classic sci-fi. In podcast land, I still have wild swings in my level of comprehension. Sometimes I understand so little that I think I'm wasting my time, other times I follow most of the plot and actually enjoy the story. I seem to do better with stories in translation. In Le tour d'Ă©crou de Henry James a young governess has to protect her charges from some vengeful ghosts; in Dix doigts dans l'engrenage de Christian Roux there was a piano player, some nazis, I think, a rich woman, jazz-fueled orgies?, and maybe a murder? (I really had no idea what was going on); in Le FantĂŽme de Canterville de Oscar Wilde a 300-year old ghost gets no respect from the American family that moves into his mansion (the father offers to oil his chains so they don't creak so much); in Voiles de mort de Didier Daeincks a sailor is slipped LSD at a bar in the south Pacific (I think) and signs up on a tour to look for a million-dollar treasure with a woman who shouldn't have been trusted; and in in tales for Jeunesse I learned that Peter Pan, ou le garçon qui ne voulait pas grandir was really kind of twisted, and that Tinkerbell had a crush on him and tried to kill Wendy. Seriously. That was so not in the Disney movie. Meanwhile, in tv land, I watched two episodes of Un village français, and I'm completely riveted; the show is as good as I had heard it was. The links were posted in the main Super Challenge thread. Follow them! Italiano Harry Potter has finally formed his secret army. In the South Pacific,Corto Maltese has taken charge of two orphans while the head pirate and main baddie arranges to sell stolen coal to the German army. And then there's Dante. I wanted to read him one day, and I took a peek to see how hard Inferno would be ... and I got sucked in. per me si va ne l'etterno dolore, per me si va tra la perduta gente. Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore; fecemi la divina podestate, la somma sapĂŻenza e 'l primo amore. Dinanzi a me non fuor cose create se non etterne, e io etterno duro. Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate." Queste parole di colore oscuro vid' ĂŻo scritte al sommo d'una porta "Through me the way to the city of woe Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost men. Justice moved my maker on high. He made me, the divine power, the wisdom supreme, and the primal love. Before me nothing was created that was not eternal, and eternal I endure. Abandon all hope ye who enter here." These words, dark in hue, I saw inscribed over the arch of a door. I love this stuff. It'a much more accessible than I thought it would be. It's available online with English side by side translations at the http://etcweb.princeton.edu/dante/pdp/commedia.html - Princeton Dante Project The same website discussed in the SC page has a link to Il commissario Montalbano with English subtitles, so that will keep me busy for awhile. Though it seems that every Italian tv show or movie I see is Il commissario This or La Mafia that. It can't be all cops and robbers over there, can it?             TĂŒrkçe I hated the thought of forgetting all my Turkish, and having to start over again down the road. Yet I don't have time to really commit to it, so I'm going to try an experiment, and just work passively through FSI for an hour each week. I started last weekend, and it went well. I certainly couldn't produce the answers to the drills, but I could follow along, understand them, and reproduce them. It's good enough for now. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ Same plan for Greek; an hour Saturday morning. I'm just reviewing what I've read, and it takes me close to an hour to read 50 lines of the Iliad. But these are great lines, so I'm ok with reading and re-reading them. In this short stretch Agamemnon has told the priest Chryses just what he intends to do with his kidnapped daughter. The old priest wanders off alone to a distant shore, and prays to Apollo: Let the Greeks pay for my tears with your arrows Next up (I've read ahead): plagues, death, and one pissed-off Achilles. Greek and Roman materials are available at the http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/collections - Perseus Digital Library ۧÙŰč۱ۚÙŰ© This is the first time I've touched Arabic in two years, and I'm happy with how much is coming back to me. So far I've been using the Michel Thomas Egyptian course on my commute. It's a solid course, and a pleasant reintroduction to the language. I don't have any clear goals yet; I'll keep doing audio for the summer (since it's what I have) and then evaluate my next steps. kanewai on 19 June 2014 |
Actually, this was in the Disney movie, but possibly more subtly than in the book (I've only seen the film). I guess you saw it when you were young and didn't pick up on it? How would you rate La planĂšte des singes, in terms of readability, vocabulary, etc? I've read it in English and quite enjoyed it. It is available on Kindle here in the UK, but it's a bit expensive. Jeffers on 19 June 2014 |
You can try: Il Tredicesimo Apostolo - Which is about a priest. Tutti pazzi per amore - Sitcom Casa Vianello - Sitcom I Cesaroni - Sitcom Il peccato e la vergogna - Drama about people in pre-WWII Italy. rdearman on 19 June 2014 |
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Perseus is the most extensive source of Greek texts online, and the textual aids are great. However, I recently rediscovered another excellent source. Check out http://geoffreysteadman.com/ - http://geoffreysteadman.com/ . Geoffrey Steadman has published a series of Greek and Latin texts with vocabulary and commentary. You could buy the books from Amazon, but he also offers them in pdf form for free on his website. Each text begins with a set of core vocabulary which wont be given in the notes. On the pdf's the text takes up the top third of the page, below which is vocabulary for the page, and below that are notes on the text. I think in the published form these are on a page facing the text.
Jeffers on 20 June 2014 |
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Awesome find! I already have one of Steadman's books, on the Odyssey. I'm looking
forward to starting it once I finish Book 1 of the Iliad. I have Pamela Draper's commentary on that text; she was the 'original' but I've read that Steadman took her approach and improved upon it. And I really enjoyed La planĂšte des singes. I think I used the dictionary two or three times over the course of the whole novel (as opposed to once or twice per page for the classics). But it was a fast read. It took me about ten days, I think, and that was on top of doing everything else. I'd balance that out against the cost. kanewai on 21 June 2014 |
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Well that was quick ... I'm not ready for five at once, not at the level I'm at. I
think I need to bail on Turkish. I'm past the elementary stage, and would need to dedicate a lot more time than an hour per week to moving through the intermediary stage. I'll still play around with ideas & see if I can work it in, but my time is already pretty maxed out. Français It's midnight in Shanghai, May 22, 1927. At dawn the revolutionaries are planning on a worker's uprising. Tchen has just assassinated someone for the first time, Kyo has made contact with the Baron Clappique to intercept a stash of weapons, and Kyo's father has slipped into an opium dream. And all this in the first twenty pages of AndrĂ© Malroux's La condition humaine (1933). As usual with French novels, I suspect that this is going to end badly. I remember something from history class about the "Shanghai Massacre." sigh. Moving much more slowly, I'm ninety minutes into De la terre Ă la lune (Jules Verne), and so far the members of the Baltimore Gun Club have only made it to Florida. The whole podcast is just two hours, and I'm starting to wonder if they ever actually go to the moon. Still, it's a fun podcast, and much closer to my level than others I've listened to. Italiano Dante is having a grand old time in hell. In the first circle Virgil introduces him to Homer, Horace, Ovid, and Lucan. They welcome Dante as the sixth of the great intellects of the world. Which is kind of arrogant of Dante to write that about himself, but also accurate. Life (well, death) is a bit harder in the second circle, where dark winds toss around the souls of those who committed sins of the flesh for love: Dido, Helen, Tristan and Isolde, Cleopatra, Semiramis, and Dante's aunt Francesca. Dante starts to cry, and then passes out. Back in Hogwarts, Harry Potter has been kicked off the Quidditch team. Which is rough for him, but fine by me ... I'm not a sports guy, and for me the most boring parts of the series have been the Quidditch games. Assimil pales in comparison, and I'm rapidly losing interest. I'm down to only two chapters a week. It's useful, especially for my pronunciation, but just not as exciting as real books. At this point I'm finding the exercises in Living Language much more fulfilling. I picked up some interesting looking books at the Friends of the Library sale: Arco di luminara by Luisa Adorno, Giallo uovo by Carlo Flamigni, and a fat book full of Petrarch. I don't know much about any of them, but it's hard to find Italian lit here & so I grabbed 'em. TĂŒrkçe I just don't know what to do. I finished Chapter 20 of FSI, but it was exhausting. "One hour" of study took me all morning on Saturday. I don't have the time to work in Turkish each day, but I still have too much to learn to try to touch on it once a week. There are three Turkish movies playing on http://mubi.com - Mubi this month, so I'll watch these and see how I feel afterwards. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ Line 50 of the Iliad: Apollo is sitting on a ridge shooting arrows into the Greek camp. First he kills the mules and the dogs, then he takes aim at the men. Achilles has a plan to stop the killing. Greek is perfect for studying once a week plan. I enjoy reading it in small doses; and at this point it's more fun than work. ۧÙŰč۱ۚÙŰ© I finished Michel Thomas, and have moved on to Pimsleur. I'm glad I already have a general understanding of the basics, because otherwise Pimsleur would be driving me crazy. I also took an advanced peak at the Living Language course (you can download the first two chapters for free). I think it will be a smooth transition from audio to LL when I'm ready, though I did not like the LL method of transcription at all. I think I know the alphabet enough that I won't need to use the transcriptions. Time will tell. Español I picked up some Spanish books at the library sale also - Paula by Isabel Allende, and El Club Dumas by Arturo PĂ©rez-Reverte. I'm itching to read both, but I'm still worried about interference with Italian. Hopefully soon I'll be able to balance these two languages. kanewai on 25 June 2014 |
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I think I've figured out how to balance five. I just had to approach it from a
different angle. My new plan is to think in terms of "slots" - what I have time for, and what fits where. Assimil Italian twice a week wasn't really helping, but Assimil Turkish twice a week would help a lot. An hour with Turkish FSI on the weekend was too hard, but an hour with Italian would help my reading a lot. The slots: Assimil - Turkish. A couple times a week. Audio - Arabic. Weekday commute. Books & Movies - Italian and French. Reading daily; movies when I can. Podcasts - French. A couple times a week. Studying - Italian. Living Language for an hour on the weekends. Special - Greek. Aim for five to ten lines of the Iliad per week. ___________________________________ This seems a good summer pace. Fitting in enough movies to keep on track with the Super Challenge will actually be the hardest part. kanewai on 26 June 2014 |
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It will be interesting to see how that works for you. That recent thread about studying
multiple languages got me thinking about how I would do it. I was thinking of something like slots, but on a rolling basis. You do the slots for language 1, then language 2, then 3, then 4, etc. Then you don't need to worry about "fitting it all in" in a given timespan. Sometimes you'll complete all your slots in less than a week, other times you'd take 2 weeks to cover it all. Jeffers on 26 June 2014 |
I rearranged my excel sheet so that it's organized by type of study (native material, assimil, pimsleur, and courses. It was easier to see patterns then. The more languages I can move onto the left hand "native" side the easier it will be to balance them all! The catch is it will take a long time to move Arabic and Turkish over there ...
I had a huge burst of activity earlier, but that was prepping for travel; it wasn't a really sustainable pace. kanewai on 27 June 2014 |
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I really like the way you make your spreadsheet. Do you update it every week and expand
the relevant boxes, or update it when you finish a box, set of lessons, etc. Also, it looks like you are recording only reading, and not films/listening. Am I right, or is it somewhere else? I started the year with a spreadsheet on which I put a daily number of pages, minutes, etc, etc. It was a nightmare to keep up. And a nightmare to read. Yours is far more useful. Thanks for the inspiration, I think I'll play with Excel tonight! Jeffers on 27 June 2014 |
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I pretty much update the list the sheet as I go, and then go back and clean it up later
to make less cluttered boxes. And I haven't found a good way to integrate movies and audio yet. I tried, but it got too messy. When the SC is running I just use the twitter bot to track listening. I jump around a lot, so this really helps in remembering where I was in the longer courses, like Assimil or FSI. I don't think I have the patience to do those courses all the way through in one stretch, even though I always start off thinking that I will. kanewai on 27 June 2014 |
I love your idea of framing/ arranging it by type of study! As for the long time for the Arabic and Turkish; well, isn't language learning a lifetime process anyway..? songlines on 28 June 2014 |
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I had a long holiday weekend that involved two long (12 hour + flights) and one
hurricane day. I thought I would've made huge strides in the super challenge & finished both my books; instead I managed to keep pace & no more. I blame all the wine that comes along with long flights and hurricane days. It's hard to read when you're seeing double. Français I'll be using L'homme qui plantait des arbes for the July mini-challenge (read, listen, re-read, repeat). I watched the animation, and followed the basic plot but missed a lot of details. I read the short story the next day, and understood most of everything. I'll re-watch the film tonight, then re-read and look up the words I don't know. I like the idea of really learning one text, and this is the right length for it. 10 pages of text = 21 minutes of reading = one 30 minute film. The film was all talking; so many French films involve long shots of people looking pensively at the horizon that I figure ten pages of script probably equals a full hour of a normal film. Italiano I've hit the point in Italian where I feel like I know nothing, and am more aware of how damn much there is that I don't know. I met an Italian guy at the bar and it was a total fail. I was all "oh I'm studying Italian! Uhmm ... ciao ... uh ... " I really admire people who not only know multiple languages, but can switch easily between them. I still need a lot of time to switch over, even for languages I am confident in. I've abandoned Dante in the third circle of hell. I need to get back to him this weekend and descend a few more levels. I want to do a couple chapters of Pinocchio for the July mini-challenge, but also want to finish Harry Potter before I add another book. Hopefully I can do that by the end of next week. I listened to a couple chapters at the gym this morning, but only understood a few words and phrases. It was raining, there was a piece of oak, Gepetto was on his knees, and it might have started raining again. And that was all I got out of 20 minutes. TĂŒrkçe Stalled again. Part of the problem with Turkish is that I don't really have an end point in mind beyond 'don't lose what you've got." And I'm no where near the point where I can maintain by just using the fun stuff. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ Line 83 of the Iliad: Calchas the seer knows why Apollo is mad, but is worried that revealing the truth might anger a king - and kings always take their vengeance. Achilles promises him his protection. And so Calchas rises to address the assembly ... ۧÙŰč۱ۚÙŰ© Still plodding along. songlines: isn't language learning a lifetime process anyway..? This is definitely my approach with Arabic! It looks like other good options for Arabic are coming online. In another thread Crush recommended http://www.languagetransfer.org/ - Language Transfer for Greek, and I saw that they'll have an "Introduction to Arabic" in the fall of 2014, and "Introduction to Turkish" in fall/winter 2015. Español Still on hold while I work on Italian. kanewai on 11 July 2014 |
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Kanewai, many thanks for your recommendation of "The Sorrow and the Pity" on the
forum_posts.asp?TID=37857&PN=245&TPN=20 - team thread . I'm mid-way through, and also finding it fascinating, as well as at times sobering, chilling and deeply sad. A quick question: did your version come with any French captions? - Or was it only subtitled in English? songlines on 15 July 2014 |
I think JK Rowling agrees with you - I heard she started compromising the Quidditch seasons because she had no idea how to write yet another Quidditch scene without it getting horribly boring and repetitive.
I feel this happens all too often - find myself with some unexpected extra free time but end up not mustering up the motivation to get some extra reading or study done. Then when I'm busy I regret all the wasted free time I had. sctroyenne on 15 July 2014 |
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That looks like an interesting film. The version from France, which is crimson with a circle with a black and white picture of the Eiffel tower, has French subtitles (but no English subs). I just wish more of these films had both subtitles. To find it, search by the French title: Le chagrin et la pitié.
http://www.amazon.fr/chagrin-piti%C3%A9-3-DVD/dp/B005G0 2RQE/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1405438258&sr=1-1&keywords =Marcel+Oph%C3%BCls - Amazon.fr link EDIT: holy cow, is it really over 4 hours long? EDIT2: got my copy this afternoon, and I'm watching it now (obviously taking a few minutes break). It is really interesting so far, and I see where a lot of the ideas for Un village Francais came from, and not just the historical facts. The music-hall song which is sung over the opening credits was sung by the school headmaster in Un village Francais. I'm sure they borrowed other ideas as well. Mine is the UK 2-disc version, with English subtitles. It was half the price of the French edition. Jeffers on 15 July 2014 |
Mine had English subtitles. I'd love to find more shows with French subtitles. I've seen a lot of Spanish shows with Spanish subtitles and closed captions, and it really helps. There are so many flics where I need a little help, but don't need the full English subtitles. kanewai on 16 July 2014 |
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Bumps in the road
Small bumps, but they might slow me down a bit. - My computer is finally fried. At some point I'll get a new one, but until then I won't be able to stream two series that I've gotten hooked on: Il commissario Montalbano and Un village français. I'm bummed. I can find dvds online, but they are expensive. - And the Italian kindle dictionary sucks. It wasn't too bad for most of Harry Potter - I just skipped over most of the adjectives & was fine. But for other books I need to sit down with a dictionary in hand (or more accurately, Word Reference on my phone). This isn't bad, but it means that I can't really read over lunch or on the bus. - But I did learn that I can play movies on the Mubi app on my phone. I tried it last night, and it was a different experience. Because the subtitles are so small I can't read them as fast as on the tv, and so it forces me to focus and listen a lot more closely. This has actually been beneficial. It also feels more intimate watching a movie on a small screen at night. There's no room for other distractions. Of course this won't work for big movies, or ones with lots of action. But it might be perfect for the smaller scale indie movies that Mubi hosts. Time will tell. kanewai on 24 July 2014 |
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This Week's Highlights
From Pinocchio: Quello che accadde dopo, Ăš una storia da non potersi credere, e ve la racconterĂČ in quest'altri capitoli. It reads like a headline from BuzzFeed: "This carpenter made a wooden puppet ... AND YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!!!" ___________________________________ From Le roman de Tristan et Iseut: This is a 12th Century medieval romance based upon an earlier Celtic legend. Joseph BĂ©dier wrote a modern version based upon the old sources, and uses original quotes as the head of each chapter. I'm fascinated by the blend of languages found in the 'court' languages of the time. I. Du wasrest zwĂąre baz gĂȘnant: Juvent bĂȘle et la rinat! (Tristan, Gottfried de Strasbourg; c. 1210, Middle High German) II. Tristrem seyd: <<Ywis, Y wil dĂ©fende it as knizt.>> (Sir Tristrem; c. 1330, Middle English) III. En po dore vos oi paiĂ©e, O la parole do chevol, Don jĂ« ai puis aĂŒ grant dol.. (Lai de la Folie Tristan, BĂ©roul. 12th C Norman) IV. Nein, ezn was niht mit wine, doch ez im glich wasre, ez was diu wernde swaere, diu endlĂŽse herzenĂŽt, von der si beide lagen tĂŽt. (Gottfried de Strasbourg) V. Sobre toz avraigran valor, S'aitals camisa m'es dada, Cum Iseus det a l'amador. Que mai no era portada. (Raimbaud, comte d'Orange; 11th C?) ______________________________________ From the evil masterminds behind FSI French Basic Course: - Teacher: Dites-moi que la politique de mon gouvernement est insensĂ©e et qu'elle n'a aucune chance de rĂ©ussir. - Student: La politique de votre gouvernement est insensĂ©e et qu'elle n'a aucune chance de rĂ©ussir. - Teacher: Que m'avez-vous dit? - Student: Je vous ai dit que la politique de votre gouvernement Ă©tait insensĂ©e et qu'elle n'avait aucune chance de rĂ©ussir. I was actually thinking I had a chance at finishing FSI French this month. And then the audio got stupid hard. ______________________________________ Meanwhile, rebel angels have locked Dante and Virgil out of the city of Dis. I wasn't expecting plot twists in this book. Three "hellish, blood-stained Furies" (tre furĂŻe infernal di sangue tinte) appear on the ramparts, and summon Medusa to turn our hero to stone and trap him in hell forever. Dante calls the furies le meschine de la regina de l'etterno pianto - "handmaidens to the Queen of Endless Pain." I'm not sure who this Queen is, but I love her title. She sounds like a character from an old Anne Rice novel. ______________________________________ Back in Troy: Agamemnon is an ass. And honestly, so is Achilles. kanewai on 26 July 2014 |
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I've been intrigued by EMK's post on the Cheating & Consolidation method -
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=39069&PN=1 - EMK - and have been thinking about how it fits into how I study. Opaque: Arabic (still building the framework of the language) Cheating: Ancient Greek, Turkish (total reliance on Assimil & parallel texts) .................French writing Decipherable: Italian, Spanish (I can read with lots of dictionary help) Consolidating: French speaking Transparent: French reading It provides a nice framework for assessing where I'm at. kanewai on 02 August 2014 |
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Transition Time
My summer is going out with a bang. In the next couple weeks I've got two hurricanes (meet Iselle and Julio, below), a 12 hour flight to New York, a drink-filled weekend with friends on Fire Island, a 16-hour train trip, a drink-filled weekend with my family on Lake Michigan, and a 16-hour train/plane trip home. Basically I'll be alternating between having lots of lovely free time to do my own thing, and lots of time where I won't be touching any book of any kind. 
I'll switch up my techniques when this is all over, but will keep the same target languages for the fall. French. Super challenge is going well, and I finally finished FSI three years after starting it. I thought the final chapter was incredibly useful, and I plan to revisit it a couple times over the next year until it's internalized. I plan to continue as is for the fall. Italian. I hope to finish Living Language Intermediate this weekend. Super challenge is also going well, though I am starting to have trouble finding good films. I'm also slowly moving into native literature, though I still think Umberto Eco is a ways off. I'm currently reading Pinocchio, which is a good beginner level book. Arabic. Finished Pimsleur Level 1, and am halfway through Michel Thomas Advanced. The MT course is phenomenal; it's actually helping me make connections that I have completely missed during other rounds of Arabic study. Turkish. I've been treating Assimil as a 'text' rather than a 'method,' using the dictionary to figure out the dialogues. I do about two chapters a week this way. It's working so far. I'm only on Chapter 30, out of 77, so this is going to be a slow process. I'm not in a rush with Turkish; I just want to keep the language fresh in my mind. At some point I'll switch my Italian and Arabic methods, and do Living Language for Arabic and continue with Pimsleur 3 with Italian. I'd also like to switch out Italian for Turkish with Assimil; I suppose I can go back to FSI Turkish then. I don't think I want to do two Assimil at once (or two of any one program at once). Ancient Greek. Homer is becoming slightly less hard. Currently on Line 140 of 600 in The Iliad. Agamemnon and Achilles are starting to quarrel over who gets the prettiest slave girl. kanewai on 07 August 2014 |
Where-ish, and when exactly? I live about half an hour from the lake, in Michigan. :) Kerrie on 08 August 2014 |
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I'll mostly be in Ann Arbor, but we'll all be in the Holland / Douglas area Friday and
Saturday, August 22 & 23. It'd be fun to grab a coffee if we can! kanewai on 12 August 2014 |
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Pentaglot roulette
I keep saying that I can't balance five languages, but every time I try to drop one I feel sad and so give it one last chance, and think maybe this one isn't so bad I should drop another. Which I don't do. And so I still have five. I'm not making any amount of progress in any, and in some ways I feel like I'm falling behind (though I think that might be an illusion). Français - Still going strong in the Super Challenge. And I still have dozens of books on my bucket list, so I'm not going to run out of material anytime soon. I'm currently reading Marguerite Yourcenar's L'oeuvre au noir and Albert Camus's La peste. I didn't mean to start in on two, but I left one behind on a plane and so started the other. L'oeuvre is great - the lead is an alchemist during the Renaissance, and he travels Europe seeking knowledge. Meanwhile, his mother has sold all her possessions and joined the peasants who have stormed MĂŒnster in order to establish a city of god on earth. This is the point where I lost the book ... though I know from history classes that the City of God, like all utopias, becomes a nightmarish place. This is a challenging read. I need a dictionary, and I often need to read a passage many times to tease out the meaning. Meanwhile, in La peste tens of thousands of rats have come into the streets of Oran to die. Soon, the good citizens of the city also start to come down with fever. After a few days of denial the authorities finally confront the unthinkable reality: they are facing the plague - and the city is sealed off from the outside world. Shades of ebola. This meanwhile, although also an adult novel, is a much easier read - I don't use a dictionary, and rarely have to re-read a passage. It's much more automatic. Italiano - I'm getting impatient, and want to start reading 'real' novels. But the kindle Italian dictionary is a pain in the ass, and so I need to read with an outside dictionary at hand. This slows me down a lot. TĂŒrkçe I'm back up to lesson 35 on Assimil. This is where I stumbled the previous time, when I was trying to do five lessons a week. It's much easier to do Turkish at a slower pace, without the self-induced pressure to finish each course. I almost dropped Turkish, but then read ahead, and it looks like most of the grammar is introduced by lesson 42, and after that it's mostly consolidation. So I'll stick it out for a bit more. ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ It's getting ugly outside the walls of Troy: Achilles (to Agamemnon): áŒÎ»Î»áœ° ÏÎżáœ¶ ᜊ ÎŒÎÎłáŸœ áŒÎœÎ±ÎčÎŽáœČÏ áŒ ÎŒáŸœ áŒÏÏÏΌΔΞៜ áœÏÏα Ïáœș ÏαίÏáżÏ, ÏÎčΌᜎΜ áŒÏÎœÏÎŒÎ”ÎœÎżÎč ÎÎ”ÎœÎ”Î»ÎŹáżł Ïοί ÏΔ ÎșÏ Îœáż¶Ïα But you, shameless one, we followed you, so that you might rejoice, to win glory for Menelaus, and for yourself, dog-face. I almost dropped Greek, because holy shit is it hard. And I was reaching a point where I was mimicking the Greek without actually understanding it. I was moving backwards. But I really would love to be able to read the epics freely (and not word by painful word) so I switched tactics a bit, and now transcribe each section before moving on. It seems to help. ۧÙŰč۱ۚÙŰ© I finished Michel Thomas Egyptian, and thought the whole series was excellent. I then tried to switch over to Pimsleur Eastern Arabic II ... and bombed. I could hear the tenses, but they spoke so fast, and used words that were different from the Egyptian, that I was lost most of the time. I also almost dropped Arabic. I figured, I won't be traveling to the middle east anytime soon, and there's not a lot of Arabic literature that appeals to me. But then I did a bit out of the Madinah series, and figured I'd give it a shot. It's free, and there are videos of the lessons on YouTube. It uses a more formal than I wanted, and might be much more Quran-focused than I am interested in, but ... well, it's free. Español nada kanewai on 04 September 2014 |
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2014 Goals
I can't possibly do all this. Something has to give. Probably Arabic, though I'm still in denial. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Français My reading is strong, though I still stumble on some of the harder novels. Finish five or more novels. At the top of my list are Marguerite Yourcenar. L'oeuvre au noir (current) Albert Camus. La peste. (current) AmĂ©lie Nothomb. Stupeur et tremblements Jean Genet. Notre Dame des Fleurs. Ăgota Kristof. Le grand cahier. Marguerite Duras. Un barrage contre le Pacifique. Marcel Proust. Le CĂŽtĂ© de Guermantes Maurice Druon. Les roi de fer. Continue with Un village français. Continue with France Culture podcasts. Continue to review FSI Lesson XIV. Possible create an Anki deck at some point. 2015: Pimsleur Phase V a try when it's released. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Italiano Complete Pimsleur Phase III. Consider Phase IV at some point. Complete Living Language (finished 'intermediate,' haven't started 'advanced.') Restart Assimil (paused on Lesson 68) Continue watching La piovra and Montalbano Finish Dante's Inferno; start Purgatorio Finish two to three novels. I'm struggling making the leap to original native fiction. At the top of my list: Luigi Pirandello. Sei personaggi in cerca d'autore (current) Giuseppe Tomas di Lampedusa, Il gattopardo Umberto Eco. Il nomme de la rosa. Elsa Morante, La storia Italo Svevo, La coscienza di Zeno Dino Buzzati, Il deserto dei tartari Primo Levi, Se questo Ăš un uomo Italo Calvino, (multiple) These are some hard authors, so I'll probably need to do a lot more actual studying first in order to read them. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------ TĂŒrkçe I've learned Turkish to a conversational level three times now. And forgotten it twice. This time I just want to keep it alive so that I don't have to re-learn it when (not if) I return to Istanbul. Continue working on Assimil. Currently on lesson 36. Maybe: Restart FSI (on lesson 20) or Teach Yourself (lesson 9). ------------------------------------------------------------ ------ ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ Continue with the Iliad, Book 1 using commentary by Pamela Draper and Clyde Pharr. Copy out the verses by hand once I understand them. Currently on Line 170 out of 600. If I manage to finish then start with Books 6 and 12, commentary by Geoffrey Steadman. Sometime in this lifetime: I'll make the switch to Classical Greek. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------ ۧÙŰč۱ۚÙŰ© I just don't know. I like Arabic, but it requires more dedication than I can give it right now, and I am years away from being able to maintain Arabic at a passive level. Unlike with the Romance languages or Greek, I'm not that interested in the literature. I really just want to be able to talk with people when I'm on the road ... and the poor Middle East looks like it will be off limits for awhile. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Español I still have Assimil's Perfectionnement Espagnol at home. I haven't touched it. And I don't want to until I get my Italian to a safe place. Maybe by 2015.   kanewai on 06 September 2014 |
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Books update:
I'm closing in on line 200 in The Iliad, and Athena has finally made her appearance! I've been waiting on her - I think she's one of the greatest literary creations from the Heroic and Classical ages. Swift-footed Achilles and dog-faced Agamemnon continue trade insults, and finally Achilles can't take it anymore. "His heart is divided within his shaggy breast" on whether to swallow his anger, or draw his sword and kill the king. He ponders for all of one line and decides to go for the kill. And enter the terrible- eyed goddess. Side rant: Athena got cut from the Brad Pitt movie. There's no excuse for this. It's just rank sexism - they couldn't have a woman who fights better than all the men combined. Seriously: here she is on the Pergamamon Altar, totally chill, killing a Titan with one hand. Lets see any of the boys do that. 
Back to the story: Athena comes up from behind, grabs Achilles by the hair, and lets him know in no uncertain terms to put back his sword. However, because Athena rocks and loves a good fight, she encourages him to continue with the insults. -------------------------------------------- Over in Italy, in Sei personaggi in cerca d'autore (Six Characters in Search of an Author, by Luigi Pirandello) a director is preparing to produce one of Luigi Pirandello's other plays when six strange characters wander in off the street. They were abandoned by their author, who decided they were too crude and not fit for the stage. They believe otherwise. 
This was a hard read - there was lots of absurd humor, word play, and arguments about illusion, reality, and the stage. And also: incest, prostitution, and death. I struggled, even though I had an English translation to help me. I think I would have enjoyed the humor more if my Italian was more advanced. I'd still like to see it performed, though. -------------------------------------------- In North Africa, the authorities have sealed of the city of Oran, and the inhabitants are left to deal with the plague on their own in La peste. Albert Camus wrote the novel based on his own experiences of being in a quarantined city. Camus doesn't focus on the horror as much as on the men who rise to the occasion in confronting it. I loved this book in college - I read it twice in English. I'm glad to report that it still holds up. Here's a section from the English translation: Sometimes at midnight, in the great silence of the sleep bound town, the doctor turned on his radio before going to bed for the few hours' sleep he allowed himself. And from the ends of the earth, across thousands of miles of land and sea, kindly, well-meaning speakers tried to voice their fellow-feeling, and indeed did so, but at the same time proved the utter incapacity of every man truly to share in the suffering that he cannot see. "Oran! Oran!" In vain the call rang over oceans, in vain Rieux listened hopefully; always the tide of eloquence began to flow, bringing home still more the unbridgeable gulf that lay between Grand and the speaker. "Oran, we're with you!" they called emotionally. But not, the doctor told himself, to love or to die together-- and that's the only way... -------------------------------------------- Deep underground, I'm only making it through the Inferno at one circle per week. Or mini-circle: the seventh circle has lots of inner circles and spirals, and sub circles, and far fewer monsters. Though next up is the final descent to the core - I think it might get more exciting. Or at least more grotesque. As it is, I left off on a vast burning plane. The gays are sent here (says Wikipedia; I couldn't figure out who they were from the text), and they are forced to keep walking - if they stop they will be immobilized for 100 years, and have no escape from the rains of fire. Cruel. And strange - Dante recognizes a lot of his teachers here, and they talk about how much they love each other, and how Florence is less rich and noble now that the older generation has passed. And now for the final descent. Already a strange monster is flying up from depths to meet them ... 
kanewai on 13 September 2014 |
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I love reading your updates. You always make me want to read the classics. :) Kerrie on 13 September 2014 |
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and then there were three.
I made a good stab at balancing five languages this summer - I actually held out longer than I expected. However, it was not sustainable at all. I thought that I would be able to gently maintain four languages and focus on improving in one. Instead I would barely maintain four while one threatened to lapse behind. And so I'd spend my energy on trying to bring that language up to speed, just in time to notice that another one was falling behind. And I wasn't really progressing in any of them. Arabic was the first to go. I don't have any travel plans to the area (I like my head where it is), I don't have much use for it in my daily life, and I'm not that interested in classical Arabic. As much as I like the language, I'm still years away from basic fluency. Turkish vs Ancient Greek is the next choice, and it's a hard one. Most of the time I think Ancient Greek is impossible. I think: I can't do this, & I should dedicate my time to something realistic. But then I'll make a slow breakthrough, and I'll decide that I am actually making progress, but that I really do need to dedicate just a little bit more time to my studies. Which means dropping Turkish. This one hurts. At times I feel like I'm on the cusp of a breakthrough. At other times I think I'm still a year away. Assimil's Le Turc is getting really hard. I need to look up 75% of the words in each lesson in a dictionary. It takes me a whole week to do one chapter, and sometimes longer. I think it's an excellent if difficult course; I wish I had the time to do it properly. But I love Turkey, Ä°stanbul is one of my favorite cities in the world, and knowing even basic conversational Turkish has enriched my visits there immensely. And in 2016 I might (real big "might") have a chance to spend a month in the country. I'd love to maintain what I have until then. I really don't have the time to do both, though I gave it a good shot. But in the end, learning Ancient Greek is a lifetime goal, while Turkish is more short term, and it's a language I don't need to learn to a high level. It feels like a break-up. kanewai on 22 September 2014 |
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I took the http://www.itt-leipzig.de/static/startseiteeng.html - vocabulary test for French that is being discussed over at http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=31338&TPN=142 - EMK's log . I was hoping to do better:
1000 most frequent words: 26/30 87% 2000 most frequent words: 25/30 83% 3000 most frequent words: 25/30 83% 4000 most frequent words: 23/30 77% 5000 most frequent words: 23/30 77% Objectively, it's not bad - but's not where I want to be, so I have dutifully reloaded some French vocabulary decks into Anki. I reactivated my Homeric Greek decks while I was at it. I tried the first two levels with Italian, too. These were less automatic; I got a fair amount right, but I had to think harder to figure out the correct answer. 1000 most frequent words: 21/30 70% 2000 most frequent words: 20/30 67% This is ok; I figure I'm on course. kanewai on 25 September 2014 |
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I take back what I said about Assimil's Le Turc being an excellent course. I
took one last look when I put the book away, and found a perfect example of why it's so frustrating: Lesson 38: TR: yaÄmur dinmiĆ, gökyĂŒzĂŒ pırıl pırıl FR: La pluie a cessĂ©, le ciel est propre comme un sou neuf (brilliant brilliant) The Turkish sentence is pretty straightforward: "The rain stopped, the sky is shining." The French translation needlessly complicates this with an idiom that isn't even hinted at in the Turkish: "The rain stopped, the sky is clean like a new penny." What. The. %^&#$. This is very common in Le Turc - the French translations don't always help in deciphering the Turkish, and there is so much new vocabulary in each lesson that I spend most of the time looking up words in the dictionary. It kind of defeats the purpose of Assimil. Which is too bad. I like that it gives a more complex and nuanced presentation of Turkish than most books. It could be so good. kanewai on 25 September 2014 |
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I make all these grand plans, and almost never follow them. But I keep making them.
I've been on a Game of Thrones binge the past few weeks, so haven't done much that was language related in the evenings. And yet I've made a few breakthroughs! Italiano I did Assimil Italian for all of twenty minutes over the course of a week, and finally admitted that I wasn't motivated at all to work on it. I want to be reading books already. So this week I tried installing a new Italian dictionary on kindle (Collins), and it is a huge improvement over Merriam-Webster. Odd, as they both have poor ratings on Amazon. It's not great - it still doesn't compare to the free Word Reference online dictionary, but it's good enough for me to read without too much frustration. And I finished the first part of Il Gattopardo yesterday. This is my first "real" Italian book, and this is the first real jump in comprehension I've had in awhile. For future reference, it took 1200 pages of reading to reach this point. Otherwise, I'm still doing Pimsleur in the morning, and listening to Lezioni di Musica on RaiRadio3 a couple times per week. Français For the first time in years I am not in the middle of a French novel. As my Italian strengthens I'd like to start rotating books between French and Italian. I did have an unexpected leveling-up in listening comprehension. Franck Ferrand was talking about Madame de NĂ©andertal on Au coeur de l'histoire, and understood almost everything without much effort. This was a surprise, as usually I can understand the themes of the show and about half the details. I don't know if this was random luck & just happened to know, for whatever reason, all the terminology regarding Neanderthals, or if I was just "on" that day, or if I've really leveled up. I guess I'll find out with the next podcast. Meanwhile, Mubi is doing a retrospective on the films of Alain Robbe-Grillet this month. I haven't seen anything by him before; it all looks very avant-garde. The full French queue for this month is: Trans-Europ-Express. Alain Robbe-Grillet. 1966. 105 minutes L'immortelle. Alain Robbe-Grillet, 1963. 101 minutes Les plages d'AgnĂšs. AgnĂšs Varda. 2008. 110 minutes L'Ăge d'or. Luis Buñuel. 1930. 63 minutes La mort en ce jardin. Luis Buñuel.1956. 104 minutes L'Ăden et aprĂšs. Alain Robbe-Grillet, 1970. 93 minutes La vie et rien d'autre. Bertrand Tavernier, 1989. 135 minutes Stupeur et tremblements, Alain Corneau. 2003. 107 minutes Glissements progressifs du plaisir. Alain Robbe-Grillet. 1974. 101 minutes ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ I reloaded some decks into Anki, and so have been getting some daily exposure to Greek. It helps. I only have about one or two sessions per week where I can sit down and actively study the Iliad, but it is becoming easier each time. TĂŒrkçe Really, Turkish, I don't have time for you. I don't know why you won't stay on the shelf with the other language books, or why I keep finding you on my desk. kanewai on 03 October 2014 |
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Written Italian is quite different by spoken Italian.
If you want to read Italian literature is even more different. Good luck :) tristano on 04 October 2014 |
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To Do List (Updated): October 2014 - January 2015
I know better than to make lists like this. Or at least, I know better than to share them publicly. Earn gold star in French Super Challenge (50 books and movies) Reach 35 each books and movies in Italian Super Challenge Finish Dante's Inferno (currently on Canto XX out of XXVIII) Reach Line 350 of the Iliad Book I (current: Line 223 / 600) Finish Assimil Italian, active phase (current: Lesson 70 / 110) Finish Assimil Le Turc (current: Lesson 40 / 70) (yeah. I didn't quit like I said I would) Finish building Anki deck for FSI French Level XXIV Begin building Anki deck for Assimil Italian Begin building Anki deck for Assimil Le Turc Start Living Language Italian Advanced Finish Pimsleur Italian III kanewai on 07 October 2014 |
I believe 50 books + 50 movies is a bronze star. M has 150 films and 171 books and has a silver star. Nobody has 100 + 100, so that might be the level for the silver. Anyway, I know what you mean by the danger of making a list of goals (my goals made 2 months ago are already shot to hell), but your goals seem quite attainable considering your progress so far. Jeffers on 08 October 2014 |
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Now I've got some motivation to study! --- Three weeks in Italy next September - a
week solo in Napoli, then two weeks with friends in Venice, Verona, and Florence. That should give me plenty of time to learn Italian to a decent level. I have a final weekend (or more) that isn't planned - where I fly out of will be determined by whatever the best flight I can find is. At one point there was an amazing deal out of Istanbul, but it was gone before I could grab it. Now I find that I'm rooting for different exit cities: if it's Athens I'll learn Greek! Go Athens! But if it's Berlin maybe I'll finally start German! It's all kind of random. Which is also kind of fun. With all the fantasizing about where to go I've stalled on the actual language- learning part of the process. I had a burst of energy a few weeks ago, but for the past two weeks I haven't done much. kanewai on 23 October 2014 |
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Pre 6WC Self Test
And I'm dropping down to two: Italian and French. I'd like to come back to Greek again, but I'll do it when I can make it my real focus and not a side project. Turkish I'll just have to restart whenever life brings me back there. With that, I took an Italian test in advance of the next 6WC. It should give a nice baseline for whether I approve or not. Le 1000 parole Italiane piĂč frequente: 26 / 30 87% Le 2000 parole Italiane piĂč frequente: 22 / 30 73% Le 3000 parole Italiane piĂč frequente: 16 / 30 53% Le 4000 parole Italiane piĂč frequente: 14 / 30 47% Le 5000 parole Italiane piĂč frequente: 09 / 30 30% http://www.itt-leipzig.de/static/startseiteeng.html - Leipzig Vocab Test I'm scared to take the active part, since I'm sure to suck. But I figure I should, just so I can look back one day and hopefully smile at how far I've come. update: French results Les 1000 mots les plus frĂ©quents du français: 29 / 30 97% Les 2000 mots les plus frĂ©quents du français: 24 / 30 80% Les 3000 mots les plus frĂ©quents du français: 25 / 30 83% Les 4000 mots les plus frĂ©quents du français: 26 / 30 87% Les 5000 mots les plus frĂ©quents du français: 26 / 30 87% kanewai on 29 October 2014 |
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I've had some major projects at work, and haven't really had the mental energy to
focus intensely on languages. I turned in the last of my major reports on Monday, so hopefully I can regroup and make a strong showing in the 6WC. I've also lost interest in a lot of my shows, which hasn't helped. Italian I'm halfway through Il Gattopardo, and it's slow going. I didn't realize how reactionary of a novel it was the first time I read it. The heroes are definitely the aristocracy, and how they co-opted the revolution to maintain their privilege. It's still a great piece of history, it's just far more cynical than I remembered. MHZ stopped streaming La Piovra, though they still have it up on their YouTube page. I have two episodes left in the first season; I'm not sure if I'll continure with the second. The first couple episodes were great, but then it moved into more a cliched 80's-style cop show. It's showing it's age. MHZ also stopped streaming Il Commissario Montalbano. I guess it's good business - they get you hooked, and then you have to buy the dvd's if you want to continue! I genuinely like the series, so I'll suck it up and buy the next season. I've restarted Assimil, and am enjoying it again. The middle section was a bit dull, and I had put it aside. Currently on Lesson 76 (passive phase). I might be able to finish it for the 6WC. I'm also slowly tackling the third Living Language book. I breezed through the first two books, but the third takes more time. It's still a beginner's book, but the drills are perfect for my level, where I kind of know the grammar but it's not internalized yet. I was hoping to read some of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books in Italian, but they all disappeared from Amazon except for some expensive used copies. I'm not sure what happened. I should have ordered a bunch last month! I also uploaded some Anki decks in Italian, though I'll probably just use them for the 6WC. My reading rate has really slowed for the Super Challenge - I'm about 200 pages behind my target. My plan is to make a lot of progress during the 6WC; and hopefully the reading will be easier afterwards. French I'm also half way through L'oeuvre au noir, and it's fantastic. I'm looking forward to reading more by Margeurite Yourcenar. I finished Season 2 of Un village français, but it paled compared to the first season. It was ok, but most of the subplots involved adultery & I really didn't care about any of the couples nor their little dramas. There was a new German villain who was almost cartoonishly evil. The Resistance is slowly forming, so I hope that the next season will bring more real drama and less soap opera stuff. MHZ showed an episode of La sang de la vigne, about a wine expert who solves mysteries. Each episode takes place in a different chateau. It's only average as a detective series, but it's fun to see all the wine regions. I have a group of friends who do wine tastings; I might order the series & use it as a theme night next time I host. kanewai on 06 November 2014 |
I searched Amazon for this series, and found that it is also a series of novels. There are at least 22 volumes, so I imagine they would be classified as "pulp"... possibly not great literature, but good reading for a French learner who enjoys policiers and wine. There's also a BD of the same name as the first novel in the series. It just came out in October so it might be the first of many. I have to say I agree that the second series of Un village français was disappointing by comparison to the first, nevertheless I found it worth watching. The third and fourth series begins to get more depressing as events (particularly with reference to Jews) march towards their inevitable conclusion. I'm somewhere near the beginning of season 4. Jeffers on 06 November 2014 |
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I still like Un village français, but it moved from a series that I wanted to binge
watch to one where I'd watch when I have the time. And I know how dark the history gets, so there is that additional tension ... 1941 is the calm before the storm, though the characters don't know it yet. kanewai on 06 November 2014 |
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Benchmarks:
Chapter 7 of Il gattopardo: 18 pages Kindle says: 8 minutes in chapter In reality: it took me 34 minutes. And: this was fast for me. I'd already done an hour of regular studying, so was in the zone. Regular pace is slower. kanewai on 23 November 2014 |
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Two month recap
Oh my poor log. I've been backing off on the intensity of my studying, though I've still been active. I'm viewing this as a period of consolidation rather than actively trying to reach new levels. Français I've been watching La sang de la vigne, and watching a few random movies. For books, I've finally started reading Le petit Nicolas. It's fun, and reminds me a lot of Calvin & Hobbes. It's also nice to do some nice, light French reading rather than the harder classics that I usually choose. I still listen to at least one episode from the Au coeur de l'histoire podcast, and also added two science podcasts to my rotation: Les AnnĂ©es lumiĂšre and Terre a terre. And I am somewhat amazed that I can actually follow along. It took me a long time to reach this point! I've also started re-listening to Pimsleur Level IV. I finished it about a year ago, but it's a nice refresher. Some of the lower level Pimseleur courses bored me to tears; the Level IV has more natural sounding conversations, and so I don't mind redoing it. Italiano I've had a harder time than I thought reaching a comfortable reading level, so I went back to my Assimil. I only do a few lessons a week, and should finish the active wave soon. I went back to my novel, Il Giardino dei Finzi-Contini, this week, and I've noticed a huge improvement in my comprehension. Assimil really works! I had done half of Pimsleur III back in March. I restarted the course, and just finished it last week. It's been really refreshing only working on two languages at a time. I was up to five at a time this summer, and while fun, I think I ended up stalling or losing ground in most of them. And while I tell myself I should stick with two for awhile ... Español I'm joining friends on a cruise to the Caribbean next month, and a lot of the guys in our group are Latino. We're also stopping for all of six hours at San Juan. So I figured, why not see if I can reactivate my Spanish this month? I haven't worked on Spanish at all since 2013; I didn't want it to interfere with my Italian. I restarted last week with Pimsleur IV, which I haven't touched since June 2013. And it's been coming back to me nicely. I also have Assimil's Perfectionnement Espagnol, which I never even started. I want to try a few chapters. If I like it, I'll consider using the second level for Italian also. ____________________________________________________ I haven't noticed much interference yet between Italian and Spanish. I think I've learned enough of both that they feel like very different languages. I can't switch between them in any way shape or form, but it's nice I can both two at the same time. TĂŒrkçe ΔλληΜÎčÎșÎŹ ۧÙŰč۱ۚÙŰ© On hold. I miss them all, but I don't have the time to study them actively, and I wasn't making much progress trying to study any of them passively. I'll reactivate Turkish or Arabic if I have a chance to voyage to the Middle East or North Africa, and Greek if I discover a wormhole back in time. ____________________________________________________ Plans January: Keep reading in Italian and listening to podcasts in French; actively study Spanish using Pimsleur and Assimil. February: Caribbean cruise. We'll see if I actually get to use any Spanish or French. I hope so. March-August: Intensive Italian, semi-intensive French, possibly passive Spanish September: Ancora Italia! - One week each in Napoli, Venezia, and Firenze. October-December: Finish Italian and French Super Challenge. Bring back Spanish. January-April 2016: Intensive Spanish and French. May-July 2016: El Camino de Santiago This is the big one! I haven't posted about this yet, but it's been on my mind a lot and my boss has finally given me the go-ahead to take three months leave from work to do the walk. I want to take 80 days and do the full route from Le Puy in France to Santiago de Compostela in Spain. This will give me a lot of motivation to keep my Romance languages alive! I had thought about taking six months off and doing a Silk Road adventure on top of that ... but maybe one epic adventure at a time is enough. ____________________________________________________ I missed that there was a Romance TAC Team this year. Time to go check them out. kanewai on 15 January 2015 |
I know someone who did this (or part of it at least) for the past few summers. I think he has a bunch of videos. It looks great because there's this whole sense of community among everyone doing it and all the hosts taking walkers in - which will be great for meeting people and should inspire some deep, quality conversations. sctroyenne on 15 January 2015 |
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I'm excited for the chance to be totally immersed in a multilingual environment for
the summer. It gives me some added motivation to reach a nice level in my languages! Friday Update Français Le petit Nicolas is getting into all kinds of trouble. I can't believe I let this sit on my shelf for a year. I was missing out. In Terre Ă terre (France culture) I met Rossano Baldaccini, champignonniste Ă Forcalquier, in one episode, and Philippe Danton, botaniste sur l'Ăźle de Robinson CrusoĂ©, in another. This is a surprisingly interesting science podcast. I can't imagine an American radio show spending an hour talking to a mushroom farmer. Or if they did, they would turn it into a Ted X talk full of Deep and Meaningful insights. It's refreshing to hear France culture's straightforward approach. I like how they let the people speak in their own voice. I've also just started to be able to hear different French regional accents. I don't necessarily recognize them, but I can tell country from city, and Quebec from France. This is a first! In Pimsleur IV (lessons 6-10, review), I fell in love, moved to California, got married, had a kid, got divorced, and moved back to France. Italiano I'm halfway through Il giardino dei Finzi-Contini. I'm semi-cheating: I'll read about fifty pages quickly in English, and then spend the next week reading slowly in Italian. It really helps for me to know the general plot when I tackle the Italian. It's a good story - I'd recommend this to other Italian students. At this point the fascists have passed the racial laws, and a group of students have found a refuge in the home of the aristocratic Finzi-Continis. There are some political discussions, but the core of the story so far is about the student Giorgio's unrequited love for the flirtatious MicĂČl. Español In Pimsleur IV (lessons 1-5, review) I discussed literature and my job. Some days I'm an engineer, some days a computer programmer. This is my first taste of Spanish in a year, and I'm pleased that it's coming back relatively easily. I still need assistance, but once I hear a phrase I can recall it afterwards. kanewai on 16 January 2015 |
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I'm glad you've finally joined the cult of Petit Nicolas. It's a good reminder that reading should be fun!
And Pimsleur IV sounds really eventful. Who kept the kid? Jeffers on 18 January 2015 |
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I was at a party two weeks ago and a guy came up and introduced himself in Spanish. I
don't know why. And I stumbled through a response, all the while thinking: But Spanish isn't my target language this month. Last weekend it happened again. A friend asked who spoke Spanish in the room. Yo, I lied. Por supuesto, lo hablo. Of course you do, she said, with all your travels. And she started to speak to me in Spanish, and I couldn't understand a word. Friday Update Français Le petit Nicolas is still getting into trouble. Otherwise, I'm trying to listen to a couple podcasts each week. My comprehension is improving each month, and it's nice to be able actually feel my progress. I'll have to remember this feeling the next time I hit a plateau. Italiano I'm so close to finishing Il giardino dei Finzi-Contini! Like other books, I was able to read a lot more smoothly after the first 150 pages. I've noticed that once I get a sense of how an author writes I am able to read without consulting an English dictionary, or even using the pop-up dictionary as much. I'm going to take a big leap with my next book: Il nomme della rosa. I had a bunch of easier books marked ... but this is the one I want to read, and I don't want to wait until my language is stronger. I figure: it's better to do something hard but interesting than easy but boring. I've also discovered Il cinema alla radio on RaiRadio3. It's basically listening to the movies over the radio - a mix of narration and actual clips from the movies. It's fun for movies that I've already seen - I can follow along somewhat, and don't get totally lost. I'll post the link on the Facebook page. Español Pimsleur IV (lessons 6-11, review) Still going good, though I'm starting to confuse the Italian and Spanish words more. Assimil Perfectionnment Espagnol - I did two chapters to see how it was using an advanced course with a French base. The first chapter was rough - there were too many idioms. The second went better, and I actually enjoyed trying to translate the exercises French > Spanish. I won't make a full push with this course until the fall, but I wanted to get a feel for it. If I end up loving it I'll order the Perfectionnement Italien also. It's too soon to tell, though. I played around with DuoLingo a bit one night. And as much as I like the concept behind the course, I'm beginning to realize that I just don't like the course itself. I was impatient to finish the section, and irritated by the stupid sentences. I've ended up deleting the app from my phone. I also started on Gran Hotel. It's a good show so far. I know a bunch of people on here are watching it, and I wanted to join in the fun! ----------------------------- My biggest challenge now is figuring out how to balance Italian and Spanish. I feel like I'm on the verge of leveling up in Italian, and am still just parroting Spanish and trying to recall what I've learned before ... but I want to be prepared if I get the chance to speak next week. kanewai on 24 January 2015 |
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March 16
Français Finished re-listening to Pimsleur IV. We had our first French night at my house, and watched the first episode of La sang de la vigne. It's a good show, though the episodes always feel a bit too long - they are 90 minutes each, and would benefit from being cut to 60 minutes each. I picked up an English copy of Notre-Dame-des-Fleurs / Our Lady of the Flowers, mostly to see how much of the French I was missing. There is so much argot that is not in my dictionary, and it's easy to get lost in Genet's stream-of-conscious style. It turns out I was missing a lot, and most of it had to do with detailed descriptions of the various characters private body parts. I was also having trouble figuring out if the main character, Divine, was transgendered, dressed in drag only while she was selling herself, or just effeminate and so used female pronouns to refer to herself. And I still can't tell completely ... even with the English! ... though I think she dresses in and out of drag depending on her situation. Italiano Assimil active phase, lesson 57 - The active phase is getting challenging. I listen to the dialogues a few times, and then focus on perfecting the exercises orally and in writing. This takes a lot longer than the "five extra minutes" that Assimil claims the active wave will take. Living Language Advanced, lesson 11 - I pretty much just do this on the weekend. It's really useful for me at this stage to have a workbook, though LL is not really 'advanced.' This section (reflexive verbs of reciprocity) has been more challenging than the others; for the most part this isn't a hard course at all. I'm about 1/4 of the way through Il nomme della rosa. Some sections I can read on my own, while I still need to check the English translation to work through others. Español I didn't find as much interference between Spanish and Italian as I'd feared, but I still not ready to tackle both of them at once. kanewai on 16 March 2015 |
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Small kine update
Finished Pimsleur IV Lesson 10 today, though I might repeat it. This set of dialogues has been on agriturismo, buying and cooking local produce from regional farms, visiting wineries, and basic vinology terms. All good stuff! It's good practice, but if they doubled the new vocabulary it would be close to perfect. The Assimil active phase continues to be challenging. It's taking me longer to do an active chapter than it did to do the same passive chapter. Reading, though, is going well. There are painful chapters on theology, schisms, and Church politics where I struggle, and then there are action-packed chapters (hidden passages through the crypt, messages written in invisible ink and a secret code, midnight chases in the labyrinth, mysterious lights in the library, and a monk found head down in a vat of pig's blood) where I'll stay up late to finish. kanewai on 19 March 2015 |
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It's Le sang de la vigne...
In fact, that serie features an actor, Pierre Arditi, that is very popular in France. He's played in another serie called "Sauveur Giordano" in the 2000's, also a serie of middle quality, but I've watched it with pleasure. I simply like his voice and diction (he makes a lot of voice-over on documentaries, advertisements, etc, like André Dussollier). Their voices are immediatly recognisable. Arnaud25 on 19 March 2015 |
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Paris, 1943: Le bal travesti
Heads up: this selection has some adult themes. Viewer discretion is advised. For Team Caesar's "Hear a non-dominant voice" challenge, I worked on a translation of a passage from Notre-Dames-des-Fleurs (Jean Genet, 1943). The story so far - Divine is now supporting two men: her lover, the African Seck Gorgui, and the 16-year old assassin Notre-Dame-des-Fleurs. Gorgui and Notre-Dame are macs, masculine hustlers, while Divine is one of the transvestite tantes. Tonight Prince-Monsigneur is hosting a costumed ball at a dive bar. Divine dresses Notre-Dame in one of her dresses, a ball gown from 1900; it is the first time he has gone out in drag. ____________________________________________________________ _________ Au sommet de la rue Lepic, existe ce petit cabaret dont jâai dĂ©jĂ parlĂ©: Le Tavernacle, oĂč lâon fait de la sorcellerie, triture des mĂ©langes, consulte les cartes, interroge les fonds de tasses, dĂ©chiffre les lignes de la main gauche (quand on lâinterroge le sort a tendance Ă rĂ©pondre la vĂ©ritĂ©, disait Divine autrefois), oĂč de beaux garçons-bouches sây mĂ©tamorphosent quelquefois en princesses Ă traine. Le cabaret est petit et bas de plafond. Prince-Monsigneur gouverne. Sây rĂ©unissent: Toutes, mais surtout PremiĂšre Coummunion, Banjo, le Reine de Roumanie, la Ginete, la Sonia, PersĂ©phess, Clorinde, lâAbesse, AgnĂšs, Mimosa, Divine. Et leurs Messieurs. Chaque jeudi, la petite porte Ă chevillette est fermĂ©e Ă la clientele de bourgeois curieux ou aguichĂ©s. Le cabaret est livre aux <<quelquâuns qui sont pures>>. Prince- Monsigneur lançait les invitations. Nous Ă©tions chez nous. Un phono. Trois garçons servaient, aux yeux pleins de malice, vicieux dâun vice joyeux. Nos hommes font des zanzis et des pokers. Et nous dansons. Pour venir, il est dâusage de sâhabiller en nous. Rien que des folles costumĂ©es, qui se frottent Ă des macs-enfants. En sommes, pas une grande personne. ⊠On sâhabilla trĂšs vite, ce soir-lĂ , parce quâon allait au vrai plaisir. Divine mit sa robe de soie noire, par-dessus, une jaquette rose, et prit un Ă©ventail de tulle pailletĂ©. Gorgui porte frac et cravat blanche. Ils descendirent lâescalier. Taxi. Le Tavernacle. Le portier, tout jeune, et beau au possible, fais trois oeillades. Notre-Dame lâĂ©blouit. Ils entrent dans un feu dâartifice Ă©clatĂ© pas de se dĂ©gager da la fumĂ©e. On danse la fumĂ©e. On fume la musique. On boit dâune bouche Ă lâautre. Les copains acclament Notre-Dame-des-Fleurs. Il nâavait pas prĂ©vu que ses fermes cuisses tendraient autant lâetoffe. Il sâen fiche quâun voi quâil bande, mais pas Ă ce point-lĂ , devant les copains. Il voudrait se cacher. Il se tourney vers Gorgui et, un peu rose, lui montre sa robe gonflĂ©e en murmurant: - Dis, Seck, laisse-moi planquer ça. Il ricane Ă peine. Ses yeux sont moullĂ©s, paraĂźt-il. Gorgui ne sait sâils le sont de blague ou de chagrin; il prend alors lâassassin par les Ă©paules, le plaque, le serre contre lui, emboĂźte entre ses cuisses de colosse la dure saillie qui soulĂšve la soie, lâentraĂźne sur son coeur dans des valses et des tangos qui dureront jusquâau jour. Divine voulait pleurer de rage, dĂ©chirer des mouchoirs de batiste avec ses ongles et ses dents. ____________________________________________________________ _________ At the top of Rue Lepic is the little cabaret I spoke about., Le Tavernacle, where we practice sorcery, mix our potions, consult the tarot, read the tea leaves, decipher the lines of the left hand (these have the tendency to reveal the truth, Divine said another time), where beautiful garçons-bouches transform themselves into princesses in ballgowns.. The cabaret is small, the ceiling is low. Prince-Monsigneur rules. They are all united there. Everyone, but above all PremiĂšre Coummunion, Banjo, le Reine de Roumanie, la Ginete, la Sonia, PersĂ©phess, Clorinde, lâAbesse, AgnĂšs, Mimosa, Divine. And their men. Every Thursday the small door is closed to the regular bourgeois clientele. The cabaret is dedicated to âthose that are pure.â Prince-Monsigneur sent out the invitations. We are at home. A phonograph. Three servers, their eyes full of malice, mean with a joyful vice. Our men play dice and poker. And we dance. It is our custom to come in drag. Nothing but costumed fools rubbing up against child-pimps. In short, not a single adult. ... We dress fast that night, because we are going out for real fun. Divine wears her dress of black silk, and over it a pink jacket, and carries a glittering tulle fan. Gorgui wears a dress suit and a white tie. They descend the stairs. Taxi. Le Tavernacle. The doorman, quite young and as beautiful as possible, winks three times. Notre-Dame dazzles him. They enter the brilliant artificial fire that canât dispel the smoke. We dance the smoke. We smoke the music. We drink from mouth to mouth. His friends applaud Notre-Dame. He hadnât realized that his firm ass would hug the fabric this tight. He doesn't give a damn that his hard-on shows, but not this much, not in front of his friends. He wants to hide. He turns to Gorgui and, slightly blushing, shows him the bulge in his dress and mumbles: - Look, Seck, let me hide this. He laughs a bit. His eyes are damp, it seems. Gorgui doesnât know if heâs joking or embarrassed. He takes the assassin by the shoulders, turns him, pulls him tight, wraps his colossal thighs around the hardness pushing against the silk, and holds him close to his heart during the waltzes and tangos that last until dawn. Divine wants to cry with rage, to shred her handkerchiefs with her teeth and nails. ____________________________________________________________ _________ kanewai on 03 April 2015 |
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April
Français Super Challenge: 51.9 books, 75.4 films I'm a bit behind in books, but I'm not worried. I have a Fred Vargas mystery, Pars vite et reviens tard, on order, and I can read genre fiction pretty easily. France Culture has done a ten-part dramatization of Pars vite, which I'd like to listen to after reading the book. I can listen to non-fiction podcasts well enough, but still have a hard time with fiction, & find that I get lost quickly if I'm not familiar with the story first. http://www.franceculture.fr/oeuvre-pars-vite-et-reviens-tard -de-fred-vargas.html On the weekends I've been using Lingvist, and using Kaamelott as a study tool. I ordered both the text and the videos, and usually run through each sketch a couple times (watching it without subtitles, reading the script, reading and listening, watching a final time). It's helping me a lot to become more comfortable with casual spoken French. I also have Pimsleur Phase V downloaded on my pod; I'll start it in May. Italiano Super Challenge: 43.3 books, 50.6 films Way behind. I'm not sure I'll complete it at this rate; especially with the films. I just don't have the motivation to watch that much tv, and my comprehension isn't strong enough to use audiobooks. Just finished Pimsleur Phase IV this morning. It got more challenging at the end, and I had to repeat most of the lessons after Lesson 20. Moving slowly through Living Language and Assimil. Now that I'm done with Pimsleur I'll need to make more of an effort to work with them daily. And I'm 80% of the way through Il nomme della rosa. I'm enjoying it, though I'm also ready to read something a bit easier next. German I uploaded Michel Thomas's Foundation Course to my ipod. Because I have so much free time, I guess [/irony]. I actually do have time for a MT course; I just don't have time the time to follow it up with any kind of serious effort. We'll see if I actually start it. kanewai on 28 April 2015 |
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May
I started tracking my times on an excel sheet, which has been interesting. My May stats were: French: 20.7 hours; average 40 minutes per day. 39% Italian: 27.2 hours; average 52 minutes per day. 51% German: 5.7 hours; average 11 minutes per day. 11% Français Super Challenge: 55.7 books, 76.7 films Deficit: 465 pages. Yikes. I was at dinner with friends and someone, who used to live in Paris, decided that we should speak French with each other. And his was pretty bad - but mine was non existent. All I could mutter was bah, ouais ... mais ...shit, let's just drink. I know I can speak when I'm immersed. I've been fine speaking only French on two separate vacations. And yet I still can't turn it on as needed. It's frustrating. Pimselur V - 8 hours. Through Lesson 12. I've reviewed this in another post. Kaamelott - 1.9 hours (read/listen). Through Book 2 Chapter 14. Even with a transcript I can't understand Léodagan. I can also do a pretty good Perceval imitation. I don't know if that's a good thing or not. 
Lingvist - 2.9 hours. I'd like to start using Lingvist more regularly. Podcasts - 4 hours. My mainstays are Terre a terre and Au coeur de l'histoire Reading - 3.9 hours. I thought this would have been more; I'm surprised. Currently reading a Fred Vargas mystery, Pars vite et reviens tard. It's a fun read - someone is leaving mysterious graffiti around Paris that seem to indicate a coming apocalypse.. Like a lot of novels, there were a lot of new words in the first few chapters and I needed a dictionary; after that it was easy to simply read it. 
I'll probably keep the same balance of materials for June. It's working for me. Italiano Super Challenge: 49.2 books, 56.4 films Deficit: 750 pages. 9 movies. Crap. This is not looking good. I leave for Italy in 12 weeks! I go back and forth between thinking I'm in a good place and thinking that I suck and don't know anything. Which is par for the course for me. Rationally I know I'm doing well. Opera - 8 hours. This is new. We have tickets for Tosca in Venice and Nabucco in Verona; these will be my first taste of major opera. I tried to watch an opera in Honolulu, but fell asleep during the first act & now my friends refuse to go with me anymore. It's time to redeem myself. I downloaded the libretti, and have been working slowly through them using read/listen technique. Or is it listen/read? I forget. Anyways, I'll read through a scene in the libretto a few times, writing out translations for any words I get stuck on. Afterwards I'll listen to a recording and try to follow along. Here's my take on Act I Scene 3, where the priest Zaccaria urges the people to fight the Babylonian army that is about to enter Jerusalem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9YHSp95z9s - Come notte a sol fulgente, come polve in preda al vento, sparirai nel gran cimento, dio di Belo menzogner. Tu, d'Abramo iddio possente, a pugnar con noi discendi; ne' tuoi servi un soffio accendi che sia morte allo stranier. Like night before the brilliant sun Like dust in the mercy of the wind You will destroy in the grand endeavor The lying god of Baal. You, the mighty god of Abraham, descend and fight with us Give to your people a breath of fire That will bring death to the aliens. It's good stuff. It turns out that opera is kind of fun when you can understand the words. I don't think this is going to help my reading or speaking much, but I'm enjoying it. I've only worked my way through the first five scenes of Act I of Nabucco; I have 21 to go and then it's on to Tosca. It will take me the rest of the summer. And then: front row seats in Verona! (and upper gallery with the rabble in Venice; we could only afford one splurge). 
Living Language - 2.8 hours. One more chapter, plus the review, and I'm finished with the course. It's been good practice, though I really wish I had something more hard core, like an Italian FSI, to really drive the concepts into my brain. Assimil - 4.6 hours. Through lesson 84. 21 to go. When I'm finished I think that I'll make some old-fashioned flash cards out of the review sentences. Podcasts - 6.9 hours. I can't tell if these help or not. My Italian isn't good enough for me to follow along with a full podcast, and I only understand snippets. All I could get out of a show on Aretha Franklin was la la la la la la la la girl group la la la la la cresca en Detroit la la la la la la la la prima rivoluzione era quella della Supremes la la la cue music. I can't tell if I'm learning or not. When I'm in the mood I listen to Lezioni di musica and Lezioni di rock. Reading - I finished Il nome della rosa. By the end I was familiar enough with Eco's writing style that it was a smooth and pleasant read. Then I moved on to an older classic, La coscienza di Zeno (Italo Svevo, 1923), the story of one man's adventures in psychoanalysis. A few of the shorter chapters were enjoyable, especially a comic one where he attempts to quit smoking (he enters a health spa for treatment, and then seduces the nurse so he can escape and have one last midnight smoke). But overall the writing style in the book was difficult for me, and the main character was too much of a neurotic mess for me to enjoy the book. I read about sixty pages and called it quits when I found a more enjoyable book: La solitudine dei numeri primi (Paolo Giordano, 2008), about two very scarred young people. A couple people on HTLAL have recommended it, and so far I really enjoy it. And even better: I'm reading it hard cover, not on my kindle, and without the aid of an English text. This is a first. Sometime I can read a page straight through, sometimes I need to look up a dozen words; either way it's a major breakthrough for me. 
Movies - 20 minutes. Why do I even bother. Audiobooks - 2 hours. I listened to the first chapters of both Pinocchio and Zeno. I still don't understand much, and like the podcasts I'm not sure if this is useful. For June I'd like to finish Living Language and do another ten chapters or so of Assimil. In July I'll start to focus a lot more on speaking: Pimsleur IV again, and flashcards with Assimil sentences. German Still slowly working through Michel Thomas. I can only do this because it's easy; I don't have the time or energy to properly tackle a third language. kanewai on 02 June 2015 |
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I know what you mean about La coscienza di Zeno: it was great at first, especially the smoking part, but as it went on I found it less and less interesting. I slogged until the end, but I don't think you've missed out much stopping early. I've been put off Il nome della rosa as I expected it to be too difficult, so it's nice to see you found it manageable. I didn't find Zeno too hard once I got used to the slightly old-fashioned vocabulary.
I didn't enjoy the film of La solitudine dei numeri primi too much so I've been reluctant to try the book, but I could reconsider. The story might be a bit easier to follow in writing than on film. Enjoy the opera! I've never been to the opera but it's something I'd like to try sooner or later, especially with my Italian knowledge. garyb on 02 June 2015 |
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Occasional mentions I've seen of Fred Vargas has piqued my interest. I have been very disappointed to discover that on UK kindle they only have her books in English and in German, not in French. The weird thing is that they have 12 of her books in German on kindle in the UK and only 9 in English.
Jeffers on 02 June 2015 |
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I always enjoy your updates! Kaamelot is on my to-tackle list this summer. Thanks for the heads-up that
some of the character's voices may be difficult to understand. I didn't know there was a transcript - I am going to try and find it. And I brought home some Fred Vargas books from my trip last fall to Belgium- so I think I will pull one out too. Great job - and thanks for the inspiration! Mohave on 02 June 2015 |
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I hope you will enjoy the operas: "Tosca" and "Nabucco" are a good choice
Anya on 02 June 2015 |
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There are free transcripts at
http://kaamelott.hypnoweb.net/episodes-.119.2/ - hypnoweb , though in the end I just ordered a used paperback off of Amazon. There is so much slang that English subtitles didn't help me much at all. Hypnoweb also has scripts for http://engrenages.hypnoweb.net/episodes.178.2/ - Engrenages , though Netflix stopped streaming all the seasons. kanewai on 02 June 2015 |
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Revised June Goals:
Italian: Aim for 45" / day average Try and finish Living Language Finish Nabucco 30" reading a day 15" podcasts per weekday (al Dente, and possibly Arlecchino) French Aim for 30" / day average German Aim for 60" / week kanewai on 04 June 2015 |
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I've added a few more Italian things into the rotation this month.
http://www.podclub.ch/it/transmissioni/al-dente-i?start =45 - Al dente (Italiano) - A fifteen minute general interest podcast per gli studenti d'Italiano a partire dal livello A2/B1. That's my level, on the dot. I've been listening to it on my commute, and can understand most of it, but I think I'll switch to listening while reading the transcript. I also finally found an http://www.rokuguide.com/private-channels/itunes-podcasts - iTunes Podcast Roku Channel that works. This means that it's a lot more convenient to watch https://italian.yabla.com/videos.php - Yabla videos . I see that Yabla also has an app for the ipad, but there aren't any reviews & I'm wary of free programs with "in app purchases." Other links: http://www.librettidopera.it/zpdf/nabucco.pdf - Nabucco libretto (Italian) http://www.librettidopera.it/zpdf/tosca.pdf - Tosca libretto (Italian) http://www.impresario.ch/libretto/libvernab_e.htm - Nabucco libretto (English) http://www.murashev.com/opera/Tosca_libretto_English_Italian - Tosca libretto (dual language) I've finished Act 1 of Nabucco. I can follow along with the arias, but am completely lost as soon as two or more start singing. It's beautiful to listen to, but I can't understand a single word even with the libretto in front of me. -------------------------------- I tried http://coerll.utexas.edu/ra/index.php - Radio Arlecchino (Italian grammar made easy!), but it wasn't really my style. I liked the short stories, but you have to listen to five to seven minutes of grammar explanation first. I never find this useful; I think teachers tend to over explain grammar & they just end up confusing everyone. I'm more partial to the style of Assimil, or Michel Thomas: give a quick explanation, but let the student discover the nuances on their own. And I had a major fail with Netflix. Their new original shows are dubbed in Spanish, French, and German. However, I tried the French dubs for Daredevil, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, and Marco Polo, and the voice actors were atrocious on all of them. I also checked out the French captions, but they didn't match the speaking at all. It's frustrating; in theory this would have been an excellent resource. I might giver some of them another chance. Netflix should be releasing some French and Spanish original shows later this year (Club de Cuervos, Narcos, and Marseille) - I'm holding out hope for these. kanewai on 05 June 2015 |
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Thanks a lot for the link http://www.librettidopera.it!. It's very useful for me.
Anya on 06 June 2015 |
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6WC Results - May 2015
This was the fifth time I did the 6WC, and maybe the quietest. I finished at number 11, which was a surprise - this round was a lot less competitive than the past ones. Usually I rank in the mid-20's. I started plotting my studies on an excel sheet. I should have started this years ago - it really helps to see where I'm at, and it serves as a major reality check (I thought I was spending a lot more time reading than I actually was, for example). 
Full results for the 6WC: Italian: 39 hours - 12 hours of podcasts. - 11 hours of reading - 6 hours with Assimil (almost finished) - 4 hours translating and listening to opera (listening with libretto) - 4 hours with Living Language (almost finished) - 1 hour Pimsleur (repeating Phase IV; just restarted a few days ago) French: 29 hours - 11 hours of Pimsleur (Phase V) - 6 hours of podcasts - 6 hours of reading (I thought it was more) - 4 hours with Lingvist - 2 hours with Kaamelott (watching with script) German: 7 hours - all Michel Thomas I definitely feel like I'm at a breakthrough level with Italian, and I hope to keep up this pace for the rest of the summer. kanewai on 12 June 2015 |
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Math time.
I need to seriously pick up my reading pace. I just ordered four Italian books on Amazon: La storia - Elsa Morante. 600 pages Il deserto dei Tartari- Dino Buzzati. 202 pages Se questo e un uomo ; La tregua - Primo Levi. 362 pages. Le Cosmiccomiche - Italo Calvino. 160 pages. I still have Storia delle terre e dei luoghi leggendari (Umberto Eco, 477 pages) at home, and am 1/3 of the way through La solitudine dei numeri primi (Giordano Paolo, 304 pages). If I finish all these I'll be at 95 super-challenge books. I just need to read one of them a month, on average. It's theoretically possible. kanewai on 13 June 2015 |
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Congratulations on the 6WC, brah! With Honolulu 12 hours behind the clock, I noticed we were amongst the last two standing (or should I say tweeting).
I'm impressed you can make head and tail of the dialogue in Kaamelot. I tried out an episode last night during a quick break, just for a bit of fun, but man was that hard; I felt like the language equivalent of a 100 pound weakling trying to bench press 500 pounds on his first day down the gym! Maybe I should follow in emk's early footsteps and start with something more my level like "Ulysse 31" (I wen love da kine, small kid time!) ;) Teango on 13 June 2015 |
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I need the script for Kaamelott, otherwise I'm completely lost.
Congrats on finishing ahead of the pack! 188 hours of Hawaiian is seriously epic. What materials have you found? I looked at the State library for books a few months ago, but didn't really like what I saw - nothing looked good for a self-learner, and I don't have time to join a study group. kanewai on 15 June 2015 |
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50 Days
I've been tracking my minutes on an excel spreadsheet for the past 50+ days. I started it to make the 6WC challenge easier, but I love being able to graph the results like this, so I'm going to aim to track things for a full 100-days. (wish list for any new HTLAL site: an easier way to post graphs like this! Making them is fun. Formatting them for posting sucks). First up: cumulative hours for French, Italian, and German. This one is heartening: I'm close to fifty hours for fifty days for Italian, and it's been a nice steady progression. I have fifty days until I leave for Naples; I hope I can keep this pace up! German has been a trip. Having spent so much time on Romance languages, the basics of German actually seems intuitive. Anything in English that isn't from Norman French must be from Saxon German, right? Though I'm using Michel Thomas, and he holds your hand so much that everything seems easier than it is. 
Here I track the average minutes/day spent studying, using three-day averages. I thought I might see some patterns here, but I can't find any. The peaks and valleys seem random. 
Cumulative minutes spent with four French activities. Pimsleur is in the easy lead; this and podcasts are the easiest thing to work into my day. I'm on lesson 20 out of 30 for Phase V, so this should level off soon. And I thought I was reading far more than I actually was. 
And cumulative minutes with Italian. I've finished Living Language, and only have 20 more active lessons of Assimil to go, so those lines will level off soon. I'm glad to see that my time with podcasts and my time reading is similar. I've made a huge breakthrough with Italian reading this past week: I've been reading a hard copy of La solitudine dei numeri primi without using a dictionary. I used one a lot the first fifty pages, and then found I could actually understand the book without one. It's been interesting: if you asked me to translate any particular sentence I would stumble and fail, but at the end of the chapter I have a very clear understanding of what happened. I know the horrible things the mean girls did to Alice in the locker room, and I know the dark secret that leads Mattia to cut himself. I've started to re-do Pimsleur IV, so that line should rise quickly. 
kanewai on 20 June 2015 |